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Importance of Leadership and Onboarding for Safety with Curtis Weber

The Safety Guru with Eric Michrowski: Episode 25 - Importance of Leadership and Onboarding for Safety with Curtis Weber



Safety is important at all stages of a career, whether it is the first, third or last day at work. Irrespective of the job, communication and collaboration during and after onboarding are crucial to ensure everyone’s safety. Curtis Weber is a Safety and Motivational speaker, who learned about the importance of speaking up and building relationships with co-workers through a serious workplace accident that changed his life. Tune in to learn about the importance of leadership and making safety personal during and after orientation.


Real leaders leave a legacy. They capture the hearts and minds of their teams. Their origin story puts the safety and well-being of their people first. Great companies ubiquitously have safe yet productive operations. For those companies, safety is an investment, not a cost for the C-Suite. It’s a real topic of daily focus. This is The Safety Guru with your host, Eric Michrowski, a globally recognized Ops and The Safety Guru public speaker and author. Are you ready to leave a safety legacy? Your legacy success story begins now.

Hi and welcome to the safety guru. I’m really excited to have with me Curtis Weber. We’ve met a little while back. I’m going to say it’s probably about a year, year and a half ago, well before covid. So, Curtis, great to have you on the show. Really happy to hear the sound of your voice again.

You better. Thanks. Good chatting with you again here over the last little bit, setting this up. And thanks again for having me on the forecast.

So, Curtis, you speak to a lot of different audiences. That’s how we originally met. You were talking to a leadership team in terms of the importance of safety leadership. Can you share a little bit about your back, your background and how you ended up in the safety space? And I know there’s an unfortunate incident that happened. So maybe if you can share a little bit about the injury, that and really more importantly, how you got to what you’re doing now in terms of really helping a lot of organizations and leaders embrace safety to take it to the next level.

So, I guess before I usually get into the events of the incident, I always kind of share with my groups a bit of a background, especially when we’re talking about safety and try to make impacts and have people buying the messaging. I always kind of share a bit of a back story of where I was going with my injury before I was actually seventeen when the incident happened. I just graduated, had an opportunity to move away from home and live out a dream of playing hockey at the next level and Elberta some junior hockey.

And unfortunately, that wasn’t going to be the case for me because on the third day of what I call my first ever real job, working outside of a family business, building steel green beans on the prairies of Saskatchewan, I had an incident. And I think that’s an important note when I speak to the of being that I was 17 years old, but also being that I was in the third day of my job, we were attempting to make a move to make a lift with a hopper ball of a big steel structure.

We’re trying to put it underneath an overhead power line. And after a brief discussion and a day that went completely sideways for us, it was a day that we were supposed to be done early on the Friday of a long weekend. Our first our first job didn’t go the way we had planned it. So, we found ourselves kind of behind and rushing to get the job done so we could get done before that long weekend. And in doing so, we didn’t have the proper discussions or conversations and myself included, didn’t take the opportunity to speak up and voice a concern.

And as we were attempting to make a move with that pickup truck and back that off the bottom, underneath the power line, we contacted an overhead power line, which was sent through fourteen thousand four hundred volts of electricity through my body and through three separate cycles.

My goodness. And I think one of the pieces I mean, you had such a promising hockey career ahead of you. The part that I remember when we first met is really your positive outlook. And would you decide to come out of it? Can you share maybe a little bit about how you started helping organization? Kind of what triggered that? That’s that thinking? Yeah. You know, I never really thought of a safety role as a motivational speaker role, not as much as me as my mother would have told me when I was going through my recovery and after the recovery, she always said I should you know, I’ve got a great story and an inspirational story with the way that I dealt with things.

But I guess going into this role, I it was really just kind of, you know, fell into my lap. I you know, after the long recovery and the surgeries and amputations and, you know, years of physiotherapy, it came time to figure out what I was going to do with my life after that nearly six years’ worth of recovery time when you take into account the reconstructive and plastic surgeries and physiotherapy and stuff. So, it was a pretty long journey.

And I was looking to get into a, you know, a background in wildlife management that was kind of a passion of mine as well, outdoors and things like that. And I was approached by the Workers Compensation Board of Saskatchewan. So, their WorkSafe department to that, they were looking for somebody who has been through a traumatic experience that’s physically and mentally willing and able to share an experience. And for a long while, I it was kind of a thanks, but no thanks.

It was. Petrified of speaking in front of crowds, I wasn’t a road safety guy. Being 17 when it happened or anything like that. But I think as the years went on and they kept kind of, you know, coming back and saying, hey, are you ready to come and do some work with us? I think maybe you could call it maturity kicked in or the realization that by experience and what I had been through and how I dealt with it so, so easily almost started to creep into my mind to think maybe there’s a reason why this whole thing happened and an even bigger reason why I was able to handle it the way that I did.

And so finally, I, I answered the answer, the call. And, yeah, I had a great almost 10 years with WCP and WorkSafe and sharing my story. And I also kind of turned me into a bit of a safety consultant and trainer. So, I was able to get a good, good amount of experience and background in safety as well.

Sure. And I think one of the things you touched on in your story and you talk about is the importance of speaking up. Can you can you share a little bit about, obviously, in your story, there’s always usually this gut feel that when something happens. Can you share a little bit about the importance of speaking up, but also the role of leaders that how they make that happen?

Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, speaking out when we talk about that in a workplace, it’s so important, it’s likely one of the biggest opportunities that we have to prevent incidents from happening. Actually, we can have the best safety system in the world with all the policy and procedure and hazard assessments and documentation and, you know, our fancy posters around the workplace. But at the end of the day, if we’re not if we’re not speaking up and voicing concerns, are asking questions when we have them, you know, those incidents are inevitable.

And for us that they might not have been just as easy as, you know, speaking up and voicing the concern. There was a lot that went into the day for us, like I mentioned, being rushing in behind and the way that the day’s events unfolded. I think that those that that condition of a hall for them being there and needing to be underneath a power line, that set of conditions was waiting for a group of people like us to come along to set up.

And it was it was waiting for a group of people that were rushing and frustrated and behind. And that’s what happened. So, and when we talk about leaders, you know, lots of times when we think leadership and safety and culture, we normally think of a manager or a supervisor or a director or a VP or something like that. And no doubt we need their leadership and commitments towards developing that culture. But at the end of the day, we sometimes forget that we can and probably already do have leaders who are working shoulder to shoulder with us on site and know as much as much as that management has a role in developing that culture.

I feel it really comes down to the people that we’re working with, because obviously not very often do we find that that director or manager of working shoulder to shoulder with us. It’s usually it’s us working together. And you speak to any senior leadership group of an organization who’s got a very successful safety record or culture. They’ll be the first ones to tell you that it’s really because of the people and how their health care programs are employee driven when it comes down to safety.

Yeah, I would agree with you. It’s the same. It’s got to be that conversation with everything, the set of circumstances you talk about just before a long weekend, your work’s falling behind. There’s that sense of production pressure. And often when I speak to the theme of production pressure, people are expecting this person like lashing out of people go faster. But in many cases, it’s subtle. It’s I set out and this is the goal I set for myself for this day and I’m falling behind.

And you’re trying to find a way to get it done. And that’s often where a step gets missed. Right? Right. For sure. So, the other piece that strikes me about your story is this was your third day on the job. And it’s really even more critical based on what you’re sharing to really think through. How do you drive the onboarding? How do you get people to get to encourage speaking up? How do you make that apparent in terms of what’s the safety culture here?

On the third day, when I speak to a lot of people in the construction space, the challenges, sometimes everybody’s coming on. It’s a first date, second or third day, because often they’re coming in for a job that only lasts a short period of time. Then they go to a different job site. How do you instill that? Or based on your experience, how could it have been done differently so that as you showed up that early on in your in your in your career, somebody would have talked about the importance of speaking up and taking your time, assessing hazards, things of that nature?

Yeah, no, that’s right. Being my third day on the job, I went from working in a family business. My dad had a family business building these green beans. And so obviously, once my brothers and I were old enough to help out, that’s what we did. But from the time we were five years old, you know, he’d be dragging us on site and our jobs were pretty minimal, picking up garbage off the site, running guys tools or just being around.

And so, I always mentioned, when I speak to different groups, is that, you know, my injury happened in an industry that I was literally raised in. I was nearly killed in the same industry that I was raised and doing. But the difference was, is that I went from working in that family business. And just the year before I’m about to move away from home to play hockey was the first year Dad’s business was kind of falling apart.

So, I actually got into a crew with a brand-new crew, which was completely different to me. So rather than just kind of kicking around at home that last summer waiting to go to move away from home, it was an opportunity to kind of keep myself in shape with a pretty physically demanding job. And so, I went from working with a group of people that were very familiar to me, like my brothers and a family friend and a father.

So being that I went from that at such a young age and jumped into a crew of complete strangers who were twice my age, it’s already probably a probably intimidating environment for a 17-year-old kid to start that process. Right. And working with people that have been working together. And so, I think that when we talk about the onboarding process. Like you mentioned, with construction, there’s a lot of moving parts and lots of temporary jobs and things like that, but in orientation, I find is a really great opportunity.

If we use it properly in an orientation, I don’t mean, you know, an organization having us go through an orientation. And here’s what we expect of you. And here’s how we do things and here’s how you know what our expectations are. But a good orientation would also have built into the opportunity for four new workers to ask some questions. And maybe that’s enough and maybe that’s enough for them to be familiar with the people that’s providing the orientation or maybe the other seven or ten or thirty-five people that are taking the orientation with us.

It gives us an opportunity to maybe develop a little bit of a relationship before we even get onto the site. So, I really think that that obviously helps for me again that day, I think a lot more went into it than just me being in an environment that I’m not used to, like I mentioned before, with that, with how the day’s events unfolded. But really, like I said, that that that onboarding process, having the opportunity to not only give the expectations of what we want through orientation, but also, you know, creating that that that relationship right away in terms of people feeling comfortable speaking up and asking questions with one another.

Yeah. And I think that the part about speaking up is a is a really challenging one, because even if you’re in a place where it’s legislated that you have the right to refuse work, to stop work, things of that nature, even if it’s a legal context and legal right, which is in some jurisdictions, but others still don’t have it as a legal right. It takes a lot of guts to say, hmm, let me pause this right, and often people are talking about we need to get the job done.

There’s all this pressure on getting the work done. It’s not that straightforward is the same. I remember I’ve been on different circumstances. You tell somebody else to stop work or what they’re doing is not safe. Maybe you should think about doing a differently. It’s not that easy. I was talking to an executive in one organization who on a weekend they were doing some charity work, was trying to tell others to say there’s this gentleman on a ladder working above and not like off center drilling into a ceiling right above the stuff flying and his eyes.

No, no, nothing that the ladder was about to tip over, try to make him stop three times and he was unable to do it. And he says, I’m asking my team members to do this day in, day out and I can even get him to stop so that that personal reflection or getting somebody else to think about it. These are not easy things to do.

Yeah, no, absolutely. It’s a pretty vulnerable spot to be put into to, you know, to witness something that’s being done unsafe or not following processes. And it is it’s likely the biggest thing that will hinder the success of us of our safety systems and programs is the fact that getting people to buy into you know, we hear terms like stop work authority. We hear terms like our brothers’ keepers and sisters’ keepers and things like this. And they’re great.

They’re great initiatives. They sound great. But at the end of the day, it’s really hard for people to do that, especially when we’re working in environments where people, you know, blue collar environments, industrial environments where, you know, it’s all go no work, you know, I’ll go no, no, wait to the work’s done type of industry. And it’s yeah, it’s a hard thing to do. And I think, again, it comes back to developing that culture piece and people are good at, you know, as human beings.

We’re really good at identifying what’s right and what’s wrong and what’s safe and unsafe. Everybody knows these things. And in fact, once they’ve been, you know, developed even further background in safety as a as a safety officer in a different job once before. And I a consultant in another role I’ve done incident investigations or I hate determines investigations. I always call them an it’s an assessment, a cultural assessment, whatever the case may be.

But investigations are horrible name.

Yeah, it is. Yeah. So, when I when I did those things very often you would ask, you know, as part of that or it would come up that, that, you know, that worker knew what they were doing was wrong. They knew they were taking a shortcut. I knew that was I knew what we were doing was wrong that day and I still didn’t take the opportunity to speak up. So, I think that’s the easy part, is identifying what’s right and what’s wrong.

The hardest part is, is like you say, is, is to, you know, have, you know, given the opportunity to actually say something or do something. And that goes to you know, when you know my kids, I got young kids at home and they know what’s right and what’s wrong. And they know when they’re doing something that’s wrong, they’ve got to make a cognitive choice whether they’re going to continue to do something after I told them not to or, you know, that it’s wrong.

And, you know, they’ve got to assess what those consequences might be if it’s, you know, touching a hot stove or touching the fireplace. And those are things that that we learn kind of along the way. But it’s hard. It is. It’s a hard thing to do. And it really does come down to developing that that cultural piece. And I was in my presentations, I’ll take it away from work for a second and say that, you know, how many times has somebody been at a restaurant or a pub or a staff function or a Christmas party where we’ve identified that a friend or a co-worker has had a few too many drinks?

And that’s the easy part, is to say, oh, jeez, Eric said quite a few drinks. And, you know, it looks it looks like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks like he’s reaching for it looks like he’s reaching for his keys. And, you know, that’s the easy part to say, hey, he shouldn’t be driving. But the hardest part is to go up to the Eric and say, hey, man, you know what?

If you’ve had a few too many, we want you to get home safe. Let’s take your keys. We’ll call you a cab or just wait for a ride. We’re going to be leaving soon or whatever. But that’s the hardest part because, you know, people don’t want to look like that person who’s the fun stuff or the, you know, the overachiever or whatever the case is. And it’s a really hard behavior for us to, you know, to crack for sure.

Or the person that’s preventing you from getting the job done, because we’re we want to get it done. Like you describe the long weekends there. You want to go and enjoy the long weekend. So, we’re predisposed to say, OK, how do I get this done? Which can get us into trouble. How so? When I met you originally, you were talking to a group of leaders. You also speak to a group, sometimes different team members.

How do you instill this sense to get the right reinforcement across peer groups? Because often, like you said, it’s. Onto the VP, who’s out in the field, who’s going to influence you? They may have a comment, a conversation that matters. They can influence the people day in, day out that around you. But tell me a little bit about how do you drive this at a pure level and drive the right conversations that may need to happen?

Yeah. So, I think that that, you know, that reinforcement from our peers is something that, you know, again, it’s a really hard one to drive because, you know, oftentimes people don’t want to be the stop work authority person who is doing those things. But if we can, again, go back to that cultural piece and it starts really there, if we can create an environment where we all feel comfortable speaking up or asking questions or sharing concerns without being afraid of looking stupid or having a stupid question, I think we’ll start to get there because, you know, at the end of the day, we have all these touchy-feely terms.

You know, our this is our work, sadly, and things. And at the end of the day, that’s really what we want it to be, to be there. If I’m if I’m approaching you and saying, hey, you know, I know it’s the end of the day, it’s Friday, you know, and when we got to, we want to get out of here. But I know we’re not tied off and, you know, we require to wear harnesses and this this type of job or task.

Let me give you a hand. I’ll help you do it. We can get it done quicker. We can get it done properly. And I think the more we can create that environment where it’s an actual it’s a process where people feel like they’re actually cared about as employees, that it you know, that it’s going to make a difference. And for me personally, when I’m speaking, as I use my experience and not only my experience of the injuries and one to walk them through where I was going with my life before my injury and the opportunities, I had with that, just like everybody else out there that, you know, it’s going to work today and tomorrow that has hopes and dreams and goals for sure.

Those were taken away from me and I use that in my presentations to walk through the next chapter of my life, the injuries and what happened there and how long that recovery was. And then I followed that up by making it personal. And I guess what I’m saying is that if we can make safety personal among our teams, it’s going to have so much more impact. And that’s a big part of my presentation, is I use all the bad stuff that I went through and I use my you know, the way that I dealt with things, how you know, this since the day that I remember waking up out of the coma to, you know, two months later waking up in that coma at when I woke up this morning, I’ve never felt depressed or angry or sorry for myself.

And so, I think that making it personal and using those experiences for me to share with them how I dealt with my situation, how I’ve there’s nothing that I don’t do today that I did before my injuries. And I try to inspire people to make changes in the way that they view safety. So, and when I’m speaking on those jobs, when I’m speaking on those job sites, whether it’s a 17-year-old kid, that that needs to be comfortable, go into that 50 or 60 something year old guy that’s got a ton of experience and knowledge, I need to feel comfortable doing so.

And that, you know, 50, 60 something year old needs to be open to having me come to him. Because at the end of the day, if I’ve got a question, even if it is stupid, I might be putting him at risk and his children and his grandchildren are at risk. So really, at the end of the day, you know, we want to make it personal. And on the flipside of that, we want young people to be able to go to experience workforce and learn from then with their experience.

But, you know, we can look at it differently, too. We’ve got, you know, young people coming out of educations that some of these people might not have even had back when they started their careers in terms of training and the way things are done. And so, we’ve also got to be open now as a 50, 60 something year old to be receptive of maybe a 20-year-old coming up and saying, hey, you know, I know you’ve got all this experience and you’ve you figured out a way to MacGyver up that piece of equipment to do the job better or whatever the case is.

We need to be receptive to that, you know, 20 something year old that’s coming in with a different perspective to say, hey, let’s slow down, let’s get it done right instead of fast and let’s all go home. And I think the more you see that from one another, I think that the more opportunity there is for people to continue doing it.

Yeah, that’s so important. Is the leader, the environment, but your peers? Right. If it appears it’s a lot of organizations, I’ve, have I’ve seen where that that 50, 60-year-old is saying, hey, I’ve done it this way, don’t bother me, or even kind of intimidates a person that comes with a question. Well, you’re going to get a horrible outcome if you keep doing this. And it’s everybody’s job to drive safety.

Talk about safety. When we talked about onboarding, the experience you’ve got, I remember first of all, I had the what I got trained for six weeks and then I showed up. This was in the airline industry and it was not it was not exactly the same thing when I showed up on the line the first day because wasn’t doing things. Yeah, yeah. You could cut this corner. And that’s that gets dangerous because that starts at.

Enticing people to do things and cut corners in some instances. So really appreciate you sharing your story and all the good work that you’re doing across organizations in terms of inspiring leaders, in terms of how they make safety personal, inspiring team members, in terms of how they show up is every bit makes a difference and helps make somebody’s life better. So, I think it’s phenomenal what you’re doing. Really appreciate all the work you’re doing.

You bet you. Thank you for having me. And give me the opportunity to be on the podcast and talk to talk safety and culture with you.

Absolutely. Well, thank you, Curtis. And if ever you’re interested in having Curtis present or speak to your group, I’m assuming these days it’s all virtual or mostly virtual. Curtis Weber, thank you. Thanks, Eric.

Thank you for listening to the safety guru on C-Suite radio, leave a legacy, distinguish yourself from the pack, grow your success, capture the hearts and minds of your teams, fuel your future, come back in two weeks for the next episode or listen to our sister show with the OP’s guru, Eric Michrowski.

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Curtis Weber, Safety and Motivational Speaker

Curtis Weber comes from Saskatchewan, Canada where he has been inspiring and influencing change in safety behaviours globally for nearly 15 years. Working in safety as a Trainer, Consultant, Officer and Speaker following a near fatal workplace incident, Curtis has been able to develop a unique way of challenging audiences to change the way they perceive safety. Curtis believes that before we can develop or change a safety culture, first we must understand and influence human behaviours towards safety. Using his own personal experience of a near fatal workplace incident, let Curtis take you on his journey and challenge you on the way you think about safety.

For More Information: Curtis Weber Consulting




Holiday Special – The Top 10 from 2020: Key Insights from the Safety Guru



A year in review. The Safety Guru’s Top 10 themes and ideas from our 2020 season! Get caught up with the ideas that will help you leave a legacy in 2021! Happy Holidays! 


Real leaders leave a legacy. They capture the hearts and minds of their teams. Their origin story puts the safety and well-being of their people first. Great companies ubiquitously have safe yet productive operations. For those companies, safety is an investment, not a cost for the C-Suite. It’s a real topic of daily focus. This is The Safety Guru with your host, Eric Michrowski, a globally recognized Ops and The Safety Guru public speaker and author. Are you ready to leave a safety legacy? Your legacy success story begins now.

Hi and welcome to The Safety Guru, I’m your host, Eric Michrowski. It’s hard to believe it, but 2020 is almost coming to a close. Our show started broadcasting this year, this tumultuous year in 2020 as a passion project to improve the world of work. I wanted to bring ideas to leaders and executives who are committed to making a difference. Ideas from a diverse set of thought. Leaders from academia and from real world practical application does not speak technical safety, not push a set of ideologies not to pitch something, but rather to bring a collective of insights from inside and outside the traditional world of safety.

That’s why we’re live here on C-Suite Radio, the largest business network in the world, and their listenership keeps growing. I have two awesome episodes to cap off this year. Today, I will share a reflection of the top 10 ideas I heard from my guests on this podcast. In 2020, the next episode on December 31st, we will ring in the New Year with safety is twenty-one four 2021. The top twenty-one ideas to shape your safety strategy for 2020.

One must listen to episode with one of our top guests. None other than Dr. Josh Williams. So now let’s start with a year in Review 10 inspiring ideas for safety leaders. Number 10. It would be hard to end 2020 without talking about mental health in the workplace. We had two great schisms insights on this important topic. First, Dr. Madison Hanscom introduces the impact of mental health in the workplace. She shares an alarming stat, including the disproportionate impact mental health is having on a younger generation and the impact on safety. She highlighted strategies for leaders to speak about mental health and remove the stigma. The second guess we had was Kathleen Dobson, who talk more specifically about the disproportionate impact on the construction industry. She talked about the importance of checking in with people. Kudos for the work in trying to increase a dialog on mental health in construction as she presented a World Mental Health Day topic number nine, Dr. Stephanie came to talk to us about some research that was being done in the health care space, particularly as covid-19 hit the industry at an alarming rate, an industry where the focus was dominated by focus on patient outcomes but didn’t often speak about safety from a worker’s standpoint. She talked about the huge toll, the exhaustion within health care workers as a number of health care workers were often being reduced despite the huge impact of covid-19 in most wars, some truly alarming and considered concerning data points. And we’ll try to check in with her in 2021 to see an update on her research. Next, we go to number eight. As the world was marking Distracted Driving Awareness Month, we spoke to Brian, who spoke about his book The Long Blink, which tells the story of a driver shuttling a truck across Ohio and having a long blink with a cocktail of meds after a first shift, falling a short night’s sleep and permalink altering the life of a family, he shares the quest of the father and taken to try to legislate more, focusing on safety and how, unfortunately, given the nature of the industry, it’s unlikely safety will truly improve with a greater focus on legislation.

Food for thought as you travel across the interstates. While some progress has been made, too many people continue to die on the roads unnecessarily every year, and it’s time for safety to really drive into the driver’s world. Number seven. And speaking of distracted driving, in a long blink, we had Rebecca present top ideas to proof sleep and to improve safety outcomes, a topic we heard a lot of in 2020 as work life boundaries got stretched and people were having trouble sleeping. She shared some tangible ideas from her research in the space of sleep and strategies to get more of it. Yes, less alcohol, less computers before bed, and of course, many more ideas. And also, the importance of leaders speaking about this topic to reduce injuries, i.e., the person who got evicted the night before. I mean, the conversation I had with the leader recently, and it was only uncovered because the leader showed active care. Can you imagine if that worker was using some heavy piece of equipment?

Could have been very easily a. Kudos for that organization for having had that leader actually killed. Then we go to number six, we have to talk about safety. Communication is such an important topic that we even dedicated two episodes to too many businesses. Just mail it in regard to safety communications. First, we had Dr. Josh Williams speak to the importance of one on one with employees, how employees who feel listened to put in more discretionary effort. And he also speaks that he created a free quiz with no catch to help leaders see how they’re doing at Zero Harm Leadership Dotcom.

A self-assessment to help think about how are you doing and how could you get better at safety communication? Well, we also had Dr. Archana, who speaks about the importance of upwards communication, the lateral communication. In other words, how do you get ideas from key members to leaders? How do you get them to collaborate more with each other to prove the rule of safety? So, so critical key things. And we go to number five. Chris came to talk to you about making safety personal while I’m staying safe, both at the frontline level and the leadership level, introducing themes like pictures of loved ones, introducing a personal conversation from leaders on the importance of safety. Such a simple idea, but something I’ve been passionate about and advocating for a very, very long time. I wish more people helped make safety real for everyone. We need the discretion for people to stay safe. We need to stop blame, stop getting people to just mail in their safety. We need one hundred percent from each team member and an extra hundred percent from the company. So that were 200 percent in for safety. Then we go to team number four.

We are back with Dr. Josh Williams, who came with another great set of ideas around safety incentives for year organize. For years, organizational leaders have used safety incentives to try and motivate safety. The rationale was that providing financial rewards for not getting hurt might motivate employees to try harder, quote unquote, for safety. In reality, this often this current encourages non-reporting. Plus, people are already motivated and should be motivated to avoid injuries. Effective incentives should be focused on proactive safety behaviors and efforts.

Rewards should be symbolic and safety. Feel genuine appreciation. Recognition trumps every other incentive and remains the most important. And yet, here’s another free quiz. No cash, no gimmick. Human Performance leader Dotcom, which explores this theme of safety incentives with self-reflection in terms of how are you doing and what you can do to drive improvement, then we go on to theme number three with Bryce Griffler, who spoke to the importance of diversity in safety, how diversity and inclusion is about, bring different perspectives and opinions to the table, starting with maybe a union leader to non-traditional leader that came from a different part of the company, maybe in it to the person that has a completely different background.

Imagine the power of ideas, the most innovative company in the world powered inside your business to improving safety by tapping into diverse and inclusive group and increasing the diversity and inclusion within your safety team. I wish more people spoke about spoke about this. Then we go to theme number two. Now, this was powerful breathily a couple of weeks ago, shared some tangible, sorry, articulate a tangible leadership equation for safety. Wow, what a story.

Two leaders, one had a two point four and another one of zero point five. The first one had only improved by fifty three percent over a few years, the other one by eighty six percent. So, one was a wow success story. The other one was OK. What was the difference between those two leaders? Three key themes. The first one is the wow leader had sixteen items that were articulate with tangible themes and objectives for the team members, things like inspections, corrective action, safety projects and the way rated at twenty percent.

The not so wild leader only had four themes only we did have five percent NEC’s. The commitment theme of leaders. The leader that wow spent 15 hours per week speaking about safety on the shop floor, reinforcing safety, interacting with team members in safety talks four times more than the leader that did. Wow. That leader only spent four hours per week. They were mailing in. A third theme is one leader showed up at seven a.m., six a.m. Stanishev meeting.

So showed up after the starter shift meeting. That was, of course, the non-wild leader versus the wow safety leader showed up at five thirty-eight y five thirty because they started each day. Thirty minutes with our leadership team to talk about safety operations, and then she joined the start of shift meetings to be present. At that point, three key items showing true leadership have been met with real results when it comes to safety. And then we go to number one theme for this year.

I absolutely love the name to Dr. Josh and bring brought to the table. He called it BeHOP: the Integration of behavior. Behavior safety, human performance. Essentially, too many safety leaders have a dogmatic approach to safety, very strong ideology. Who cares? The world at business need results, not ideologies that are fighting with each other for airtime. It’s time to stop fighting, stop fighting between BeHOP and cognitive psychology and any other tool that helps safety.

There is no silver bullet. If there was, we wouldn’t have a show here saying that behaviors don’t matter, and people have no free will makes no sense. Yet some people say that to articulate that our ideas make more sense, he brings some very pragmatic ideas about pushing through a plateau and safety performance and bring ideas from some of the key performance tools to reduce if to behavior-based safety. Some cognitive ideas really bringing different themes from different perspectives to give you real results.

Wow, I love his pragmatic approach to making a difference in safety. What a great set of ideas. Those are my top ten for twenty. Listen in on December 31st as we look forward to the top twenty-one for twenty-one. The top twenty-one safety ideas to make a real difference in twenty twenty-one. Are you ready to leave a legacy? Join us in 20 or 21 as I have another phenomenal lineup of guests and ideas for you.

Hey, and if you know somebody that should be on the show, let me know. Let’s make safety fun, simple and useful for executives and leaders. Let’s make a real difference. Happy holidays from The Safety Guru. Thank you. Happy holidays.

Thank you for listening to The Safety Guru on C-Suite radio. Leave a legacy, distinguish yourself from the pack, grow your success, capture the hearts and minds of your team. Fuel your future. come back in two weeks for the next episode or listen to our sister show with the Ops guru, Eric Michrowski.

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Leaders Owning It for Safety! with Brie DeLisi



Today we are in conversation with Brie DeLisi, Associate Partner with Propulo. Safety Leaders know that Leadership Matters to drive the right Safety Outcomes. In a must listen to episode, Brie helps make that statement real. She demonstrates through her research what Owning It means for safety and how it translates into tangible outcomes. If someone needs convincing on the importance of investing in your leaders, listen in!


Real leaders leave a legacy. They capture the hearts and minds of their teams. Their origin story puts the safety and well-being of their people first. Great companies ubiquitously have safe yet productive operations. For those companies, safety is an investment, not a cost for the C-Suite. It’s a real topic of daily focus. This is The Safety Guru with your host, Eric Michrowski, a globally recognized Ops and The Safety Guru public speaker and author. Are you ready to leave a safety legacy? Your legacy success story begins now.

Hi and welcome to The Safety Guru. Today I’m very excited to have with me Brie DeLisi, she is our associate partner with human performance and business transformation, with years’ worth of experience around safety, safety, culture. She’s done a lot of incredibly powerful work with a lot of different organizations to assess, understand their safety cultures and drive meaningful impact across them. And I’m really excited today because we’re going to talk about a really important topic, which is really around the critical role of senior leaders and how they could drive effective impact in terms of a strong culture.

So, Brie, welcome to the show.

Hello. Thank you for having me.

Excellent. So first, I’d love to hear a little bit about how you got started in this career and some of the goals and experiences that you really had that got you to where you are now.

Yeah, absolutely. So, it’s kind of funny. When I originally picked this field, it was because I had a very strong desire of making. I wanted to help people and I wanted it to be sort of scientifically based. And it was a little bit tricky figuring that out. You know, did I want to go in the direction of the medical field? Did I did I want to go into some of the sciences? And I ended up landing on occupational safety because it felt like such a tangible way to help improve people’s lives.

Yeah. And then it was kind of funny because as I progressed into my you know, I studied occupational safety and health initially, and then I went into the aerospace industry to actually practice occupational safety. And something that I found out pretty quickly was that I was not going to be able to make the impact that I wanted to from a health and safety perspective, because I kind of realized that just as a safety professional, I’m not the one that’s really influencing employees on how to work safely.

I realized pretty quickly that it was the leadership that influenced safety the most and how I could go about influencing that. So that was kind of a turning point in my career for me.

That’s amazing. So, tell me a little bit about that and what kind of triggered that thinking, because I completely agree leaders have such an important impact, how they show up, how they speak about safety, whether they’re part of the conversation or the delegate that has such a significant impact. Tell me a little bit about how you got to that realization was the AHA for you.

So, the AHA really came about when I was, I was actually working with two facilities and noticed that one of them, the one that I worked with, you know the most unfortunately was had terrible safety performance. And I was looking at the other facilities sort of, you know, an hour down the road from us that had much better safety performance. And I just couldn’t understand, you know, we all worked for the same company. Why? And we and we had to follow the same requirements.

Why was there such a difference? And it really started to dawn on me when I was taking, I was actually getting my MBA at the time and I was taking a course in later habits. And I started looking at the leader habits between my facility general manager and the general manager. And for both facilities, this was the senior leadership, the manager, the general manager at the other facility as well. They had completely different leadership styles. So, I decided to take it upon myself to do a little bit of a study between the two facilities.

And tell me about that. What did you find when you started peeling the onion behind the two?

So, the process that I took was I had to be a little bit discreet about it because obviously one of them was at my site and it was the poorer performer when it comes to safety requirements. So, I had to be a little bit discreet. But what I did was I looked at a number of items. I took a look at, you know, I had the opportunity to see, you know, my gym’s schedule, how she worked throughout her day.

And I was also quite close with a lot of folks that were on her leadership team, so. They would give me insights as well, and then and what I did was actually pulled artifacts from both locations, so I pulled people, offered up their performance evaluations for me to review. I had the opportunity to look at sort of the leadership practices on both sides. I also looked at some of the inspections there, their audit performance, and then also, of course, their injury rates.

And I did also have the pleasure of being able to interview the senior leader at the higher performing location. She was very gracious in allowing me to sit down and talk to her for two hours about what she. Implemented from a safety perspective and how she emphasized it, and I had some really interesting findings as a result of this study.

And so, tell me more. I’d love to hear those findings. This is really exciting themes for somebody who is passionate about safety. Should be no surprise behind it. But the problem is often it doesn’t get quantified, right?

Yeah, absolutely. So, part of it was I had sort of my qualitative and quantitative sides of this. So, I’ll start off with the qualitative side. So first off, I started looking at sort of leadership practices. And one thing that I found on the for our poorer safety performance facility are our GM there. She would arrive at 7:00 a.m. when the field shift started at 6:00 a.m. So, she was coming in an hour after main operations had already started.

Another thing that I noticed was that she only had staff meetings about once a week and there was no expectation from those staff meetings that those discussions be carried out with the rest of the employees as well. So, it was a very sort of isolated event. Interesting. She didn’t go out into the facility that much. And also, some feedback that I had gotten from employees was that people would be, you know, breaking safety rules right in front of her and she wouldn’t do anything.

She didn’t say anything at all. So that was sort of the one thing that I felt kind of from the leader habit side for her. And then on the flip side, at the higher performing location, that general manager started her day at five thirty in the morning and the field started at six 30. So, she was there an hour before and the main shift started. And what she said was there was an expectation that all of the other all of her leadership team was to be there at five, 30 as well.

And she began every day with a 30-minute staff meeting. And in that staff meeting, they would discuss everything from safety to operations to finance to whatever perhaps quality was included in their just what were the high priority items. And then there was an expectation that that information then flows out to the operations for their start of shift meetings at six thirty. So, it was this continuous flow of communications from the senior leader down through the field. And with that, she also was very engaged with safety.

So, whenever she went out onto the shop floor, she would make a point to talk to employees about safety feedback that I had gotten from their health and safety managers that they had at that location and said that she was the one that was driving a lot of safety conversations with operations. It wasn’t the responsibility of safety to have those conversations. He viewed it as the responsibility of leadership. So those were kind of the quality or the qualitative sides there of sort of how they as leaders showed up differently.

I think this is phenomenal. I think the start of shift, meaning it’s talked about so often in terms of safety, in terms of operational performance, it just shows up in terms of that that element, the transparency, the showing up part. Was there something between the two leaders? And I don’t know if you actually looked at this in terms of that triggered why safety was so critical for her?

Yes. So, this was actually quite interesting at this higher performing site when she had started in as GM, the most alarming metrics to her. And this was in comparison to the rest of the company, to be perfectly honest, their safety performance was terrible. It was actually worse than the site that I was working at the time when she first started as GM. And there was a change also in operations where at that time the head medical staff at that location started reporting to her as well, because they lost that that middle management.

And it was coming to light to her that they had a whole bunch of gaps in their safety systems, in their emphasis on safety. And she had a really good understanding of also honestly what it was costing the facility. So, there is the human side of it that she totally respected. But she also had firsthand views as to how much these injuries were impacting the company, both from a financial and a personal perspective. And on the flip side, at the at the poorer performing location.

You know, she had been in that role for 20 years at that point, and it was kind of, you know, at the at the beginning of those 20 years, you know, safety was not the highest priority. OSHA was kind of at that point, it was definitely requirements for OSHA. Compliance was good enough. Injury rates didn’t matter quite that much, and there was just no motivation for her to change.

Wasn’t it? So, it was not something that she was passionate about that really resonated, it sounds like, versus for the other leader. This was something that was very personal, which is consistent. I’ve definitely seen that all great safety leaders I’ve seen there’s always a very strong personal motivation for safety. It’s not some metric, it’s not a piece of paper. It’s something tangible. It’s about people making sure that you’re not harming them, that you’re returning them back to their families in the same shape or better than when they came in the morning.

Yes. Yes, definitely. And then also on the flip, so that was the qualitative side on the quantitative side. This is what I found very interesting as well, was I actually got access to performance evaluations for the leadership teams, for both of these GMs. And then I also had access to their calendars. So, I got to see how they actually scheduled out their weeks. And a couple of very interesting findings came in. So first off, for their time personally at the poor performing location, the average amount of time that she spent with any touching safety whatsoever, whether it was in meetings, reviewing metrics, having meetings with the health and safety manager, all that came out to about four hours per week now at the higher safety performing site that GM spent 15 hours per week touching safety in some way or another, whether it was in her staff meetings and safety would always come up in her staff meetings.

It was always in that sort of shift, meeting those 30 minutes every single day. And then she would also block out time on her calendar every single day to walk the floor and talk other toys about safety, among other things. But safety was always a pressure conversation. So, she was spending 11 hours more per week focusing on safety. And then on top of that, there was the expectations of their leadership teams. What were their what were they holding their leadership team?

So, I got to I got to look through some of some folk’s performance evaluations. And at the poor performing site, they had four items listed on the on their performance evaluations, and it was weighted at five percent of their entire performance evaluation. All safety items were only six percent. And those items were incredibly vague, like reduce injury rates and follow safety requirements. There were no tangibles there. It was very vague, whereas at the higher performing site, they had 16 items for safety on their performance evaluations and the safety items were weighted at 20 percent of their performance evaluation.

So that meant she there was an emphasis, 20 percent of their performance evaluation. They had to perform for safety and it included specific tasks like conducting inspections, corrective action, completion time, completing safety projects. It was very tangible and accessible for these managers and supervisors to know what the expectations were of them and that would matter for their bonus that they were going to get. And also, it was fabulous that it was tied to mostly more of the proactive and leading indicator types of behaviors.

It wasn’t focused on just reducing injuries.

I love both of these data points four times more, almost four times more time spent talking about safety, leading for safety. That’s huge. I have for four years I’ve been telling leaders, just build a pie chart and say whatever your number one priority is. If you if you keep saying it’s safety, the safety actually represents the biggest chunk of time when you spent or is spending more time on financial is more time in in meetings, on other topics because people notice it.

If you’re spending fifteen hours in a week, people say she’s serious about safety. It’s important to them and therefore maybe it should be important to me. Same thing with you with the weights in terms of that. The importance. Five percent is like, whether I do this or not is not that important, 20 percent is starting to get my attention. I need to do something. And you’re guiding what that looks like. Love it. This is this is phenomenal stuff.

Yeah, absolutely. And after so looking at all of this data and looking at the differences, I’d also like to share what their actual injury rates. Sure. It was. So, they had at this poor performing location at the time of this study their total recordable incident rate or their trial was two point four. So that means two point four recordable injuries for every hundred employees. And over the course of the two years, so it was from 2012 to 2014, they experienced the fifty three percent reduction in recordable injuries, which I will say is quite commendable.

That is sure. That is a great it’s a lot of people would love that.

Yes, yes. At the higher performing location, they experienced an eighty six percent drop in their total recordable incident rate. And that meant at the time that I had talked to them, they had a zero point five try R, which was totally different circumstance. Yeah, completely different. And I will say the two years at the beginning of those two years in 2012, the R who we call now our high performer, they were twice as bad as the location that I was that I was working at.

And they managed to turn everything around in a matter of two years. And it really, really was quite impressive.

This is phenomenal, and I think you’ve really captured so many of the key variables in terms of how leaders not just show up, it’s not rocket science to improve safety. It’s where you show up, what you do, what messages you send. So can you can in your words, what would be the major takeaways from the work, the study that you did here and exactly the same company, same environment. So, in theory, you should have the same culture, but so, so different, right?

Yes. And what I really got out of this was two major learning. So, the first one is that the emphasis that a leader puts on safety will directly correlate to a reduction in injuries and are very important about how that emphasis is placed. So, if it’s a, you know, yelling at people saying reduce your injuries, that’s going to get you very different results. But when you put an emphasis on let’s be proactive, let’s have conversations, let’s make this a learning that’s going to directly influence your injury rates.

So, if you’re if you’re an organization that’s looking to lower your injury rates, you know, take that that proactive and. Almost excited approach to it. I don’t I don’t quite know how to phrase that. I think she was she was happy about it. She was passionate about it and made it very clear to her employees that this was something she genuinely cared about for them. So that was my first learning. The second learning is that, you know, both of them in theory had this had the same management systems.

But the way that you use your management systems, those effective management system practices are crucial. As a leader, you need to be specific about your expectations of your management team and your supervisors. What exactly is it that you want them to do? We don’t want to just say reduce injury rates and follow safety requirements. We want to ask them how are you going to show up as a leader and prove that safety is important to your teams.

And with that, you know, how much time am I spending in my personal day? If safety is such a priority to me, how much time am I spending out in the field? So, we’ve got we’ve got these fabulous management systems out there, but they are only as good as the effort that you put into them and the clarity that you put into them.

I love it. And I think this this element that the tangibility of is showing up. Obviously, we’ve got to show up the right way. Like you said, I need to show active care and things of that nature and make such a difference. And yet this is a choice that day in and day out. I keep emphasizing with leaders and it’s probably the hardest thing to really get in is like show up consistently, own your safety own in terms of the expectations, make it real.

Show to other people that the safety matters to you, right?

Yes, absolutely. And you need to own it as much, if not more, than what you want your employees to own it. They are they’re only going to match what you are role modeling to them. IT leaders don’t understand that sometimes the influence that they have, they are the number one influencer on how their organization performs. And that doesn’t just include safety. That includes quality. That includes your operational performance, your finances. Everything falls under that.

I couldn’t agree more. Fantastic story, fantastic research, data points. You’ve shared the criticality of the role of the leader and can only ask everybody to really start thinking and having a personal reflection. We’re coming into the New Year. It’s time to the New Year’s resolution. This is the time to start thinking of my showing up the right way. Am I spending and misspending the amount of time that I need to spend showing that safety matters day in and day out? Or is it something I’m fluffing off to somebody else? I’m only doing the bare minimum. This was almost four times more time spent on safety, and I’m willing to bet that her performance overall was probably even better, not just from a safety standpoint, but across all the other metrics.

You know, I would be willing I don’t have the data in front of me, but I am willing to bet that you are probably right on that.

Brie, thank you so much for sharing a story. I think it’s a very, very powerful story. And thank you for all the good work that you’re doing to help organizations improve their culture, help leaders realize how they can make a difference. It’s you’re fighting a good fight. Thank you.

Well, thank you so much for having me. It was wonderful having this conversation.

Thank you for listening to The Safety Guru on C-Suite radio. Leave a legacy, distinguish yourself from the pack, grow your success, capture the hearts and minds of your teams. Fuel your future. come back in two weeks for the next episode or listen to our sister show with the Ops guru, Eric Michrowski.

 Read more on Safety Leadership Commitment:

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Brie is an expert in Occupational Safety and Health, specializing in client safety culture assessments and transformation. She has many years of experience in the Aerospace industry, working for United Technologies Corporation and Lockheed Martin with roles ranging from direct front-line technical support to corporate headquarters program management. Her occupational safety technical experience includes risk assessment, root cause analysis, injury reduction project management, compliance audits, training and program development. Brie holds a B.S. in Occupational Safety and Health from the University of Connecticut and an MBA in Management from Indiana University.


Are you feeling sleepy? Why sleep is so critical to stay safe! with Rebecca Brossoit, M.S.



Digging into the latest research in sleep with Rebecca Brossoit M.S. to understand the impact on safety. Exploring strategies to improve sleep and drive the right outcomes for workplaces.


Real leaders leave a legacy. They capture the hearts and minds of their teams; their origin story puts the safety and well-being of their people first. Great companies ubiquitously have safe, productive operations. For those companies, safety is an investment, not a cost for the C-Suite. It’s a real topic of daily focus. This is The Safety Guru with your host Eric Michrowski, a globally recognized Ops the Safety Guru public speaker and author. Are you ready to leave a safety legacy? Your legacy success story begins now.

Hi and welcome to The Safety Guru. My name is Eric Michrowski, your host. And today we’re here to talk about incredibly important topic related to safety, which is around sleep. I have with me Rebecca Brossoit, who earned her master’s in industrial organizational psychology from Colorado State University and has a bachelor’s in psychology and a minor in sociology for the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. She’s currently in her final stages in her Ph.D. in psychology and has done a lot of research on employee C’s sleep, health, safety in nature and the exposure in relation to recovery from work stress.

So, I’m really excited to have Rebecca with me. Welcome to our podcast.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Excellent. So, your background seems to be really focused on workplace psychology and works. Worker’s sleep. How much sleep do we really need? Is it true that everyone should sleep at least eight hours each night?

Yeah. So, although eight hours is mentioned, a lot is the ideal number. Experts in the sleep field actually recommend that adults should consistently be getting between seven and nine hours of sleep each night. Hmm.

And good to know. So how much people how much sleep do people actually get to?

Unfortunately, a lot of people aren’t getting enough sleep. A study that was conducted by researchers at the CDC. So, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that about a third of Americans are actually sleeping less than seven hours each night.

So sometimes sleep is so sometimes they sleep enough between seven and nine hours, but they don’t feel like I get a good night’s sleep. Why would that be. 

Hmm. OK, so seven or nine hours is the recommendation for the amount of sleep that most adults need. But this recommendation only captures sleep duration and there are other ways to conceptualize sleep beyond just the duration of time spent asleep. So, aspects of sleep quality are also important.

Interesting. So, what is sleep quality?

Sleep quality is what it sounds like. So, it’s how good the quality of your sleep is. Insomnia, symptoms like having trouble falling asleep or difficulty staying asleep throughout the night. Those things reflect sleep quality. Other experiences like waking up, feeling well rested, refreshed or restored are also aspects of sleep quality.

Interesting, and which is more important, the amount of sleep you try to get or the quality of your actual sleep in your opinion.

Good question, but I can’t pick one. They are both important.

I see. So, I have a really busy week and I’m not able to get seven to nine hours of sleep. Can I just catch up on sleep over the weekend? So that’s something I have to do all the time. What’s the risk for me?

OK, so this pattern of sleeping where you don’t get enough sleep throughout the week and then sleep in over the weekend is sometimes referred to as binge sleeping. So, this is a great question, though, and one that researchers are still trying to fully understand. Some studies have found that it can be useful for people to catch up on lost sleep by sleeping and on the weekends and that it may actually be helpful for health-related outcomes. However, many other researchers believe that people who have sleep, debt or an accumulation of poor sleep over time can’t truly make up for that lost sleep.

So, the jury is still out on this. And ultimately, though, catching up on sleep is probably not as beneficial as consistently getting between seven and nine hours each night and having similar bed and wait times each day.

Interesting. So obviously, I live a really busy life. I’m sure a lot of our listeners do the same and have the same challenges. And sometimes it doesn’t seem like sleep should be prioritized over other things. So how important is sleep really in terms of our well-being and also what we’re able to accomplish?

Yeah, so I can relate to sometimes feeling too busy to prioritize sleep. Yeah, definitely. But sleep is really important and should absolutely be prioritized. Insufficient sleep, we know from a lot of research is associated with things like heart disease, diabetes, cancer, reduced immunity and early mortality. So, it is super important. Also, getting enough and getting high quality sleep is related to mental health, wellbeing and the relationships you have with others. It’s also linked to how people perform and act while they’re at work and how they perceive their work.

OK, so you’ve got my attention. Sleep is really important for your health. The last part made sense to when I don’t get sleep or the sufficient amount of sleep, I’m in a really bad mood and can’t get anything done. Probably some of my team members will tell me exactly.

OK, so think about a time when you didn’t sleep well and you are exhausted the next day. Maybe it felt harder to pay attention and perform well at work. Or maybe you were moody when you were interacting with people. Not getting enough or good sleep tends to just make things harder. So, the way I think of it, I care a lot about my work and I care a lot about my life outside of work and believe that prioritizing my sleep will help me be happy and successful in each of these areas of my life.

So, you mentioned that sleep can impact work outcomes. Can you talk more about that? What should organizations company care about when it comes to the worker’s sleep?

Sure. So, there’s a lot of research that has shown that workers who don’t get enough sleep or who get low-quality sleep are at risk for a variety of work-related problems. For example, workers with poor sleep are more likely to get in accidents or be injured while they’re at work. There are even estimates that 13 percent of work injuries can be attributed to sleep-related problems.

Wow. Why is it that sleep influences things like workplace safety?

Good question. This is actually something I explored with my colleagues in a project on construction worker safety that was published a couple of years ago. So, have you ever gone to work and not been able to pay attention to your tasks or other people may be made mistakes or couldn’t remember how to complete a task?

So of course, who hasn’t?

Yeah. So, these experiences are known as workplace cognitive failures. And we explored cognitive failures at work as a link between sleep and workplace safety. And what we found is that one of the reasons construction workers with poor sleep quality reported having more injuries at work and being less compliant with safety protocols is that these workers were also experiencing more cognitive failures. So, lapses in their memory, attention and action while they were at work, that’s really interesting. Are there other reasons why organizations or companies should care about their employee’s sleep?

Yeah, there are a lot more reasons. So poor sleep is linked to worse job performance, being less engaged at work, being less likely to help out your coworkers, and also being more impatient, avoidant or rude towards your coworkers. Insufficient sleep has also been linked to things like unethical or deviant behaviors at work. So, things like cheating or searching the Internet for things that are not related to work, something known as cyber loafing, or even claiming credit for someone else’s work.

And beyond all of these things, workers with poor sleep also tend to report more burnout from their work, lower job satisfaction, and are more likely to think about quitting their job. So, all of these things are really costly to employers. One study estimated that it cost companies over two thousand dollars per employee with insomnia because of lost work time and reduced performance.

Well, that’s a lot of money. What can companies do? But this is something that is beyond what the company should be working or looking at.

Yeah. So, the reality is that one of the main reasons why people experience disrupted sleep is their work. And there’s research on how work hours working overtime shift work schedules and the stress that comes from work can have a negative impact on people’s sleep. However, there is a lot that organizations and companies can do to improve their employee’s sleep.

Like what?

There are a bunch of options. So, in a study that I recently published with my colleagues, we found that nurses and certified nursing assistant with more schedule, control, experience, better sleep, and they were also more satisfied and less likely to think about quitting their job. Similar findings have also been found in another research, too. So, one option would be to provide employees with flexibility and control over their work schedules.

That makes a lot of sense and definitely very consistent with a lot of other research that I’ve seen in terms of giving freedom and flexibility in terms of work scheduling. But what if the work schedule can’t be changed? What other options might exist?

Yeah, so broadly, employer related insurance that provides accessible and affordable health care coverage to employees is one-way employers can help. Likewise, wellness programs are also mutually beneficial for employees and organizations. 

So those are great ideas. What about if an employee came into work and was totally exhausted? What should an employer do with them if the employee is about to start a shift doing safety sensitive work like operating a forklift or machinery? One thing the employer could do would be to simply reassign their job tasks or duties that day and to ensure their safety and the safety of their coworkers. More generally, though, leaders, supervisors and managers can be role models to their employees.

For example, instead of bragging about how little sleep they get, they can talk about how it’s important to. Prioritize sleep, and they can encourage their workers to have healthy sleep behaviors. This idea is known as sleep leadership and it’s been effective in military settings and is likely useful in other contexts, too. And supervisors and managers, they’re in a position where they can help employees modify their schedules and their workloads, which can have a positive influence on their employee sleep.

In addition to this, some companies, particularly those with shift workers, tend to have spaces where workers can go to take short naps during their work break. So, this is another option that could help prevent sleepiness or fatigue throughout the workday.

I love your example in terms of sleep leadership. I think that’s a really good example in terms of your role modeling, what good looks like. So, if you’re if our listener is an employee rather than an employer, what can they do to improve their sleep?

Yeah, so if you’re an employee but not the employer, there are a lot of things you can do. So, as I mentioned earlier, striving for seven to nine hours of sleep each night with consistent bed and wait times is one thing you can do. In addition to this, similar to housekeeping, food, diaries or logging, fitness can increase your awareness of your diet and exercise. Tracking sleep may also be helpful for some people. You can do this with a wearable tracker like a Fitbit or simply a pen and paper and just keep track of when you go to sleep, when you wake up and how long you sleep each night.

That’s a really good idea. A good example. I think there’s even apps that help you with doing that on an iPhone. I think they’ve added some sleep apps on that side. So those are really good ideas. Is there anything else people can do?

Oh, yeah, there are a number of other things people can do to improve their sleep. Something even as simple as just reducing the amount of caffeine you consume later in the day can be helpful. Things like exercising can be really helpful for sleeping better, though. It’s not helpful if it’s done right before bedtime because this can actually make it harder to unwind and fall asleep. Other things like refraining from working in bed can be helpful so your brain can associate your bed with sleeping rather than working.

Another thing that can be helpful is having a relaxing bedtime routine where you do a similar calming activity to unwind before bed each night.

What about alcohol? Does that help you sleep because it’s a depressant?

No, alcohol makes it easier to fall asleep. This is a really common question that people tend to ask a lot. But what alcohol does is it makes it easier to fall asleep, but it actually disrupts important sleep stages like REM or rapid eye movement sleep. So, you should probably skip the nightcap and opt for something else. I like sleepy time.

I see people wearing those blue light glasses, those help with sleep.

OK, so the idea behind the blue light glasses is that electronics emit blue light and this type of light has been linked with problems sleeping. So, it makes sense to think that glasses that block out some of the blue light would help sleep. However, this is a hotly debated topic right now, and there’s disagreement about whether the blue light glasses really help some people think they do something they do, but it’s just a placebo effect and others think they don’t have help at all until we know for sure.

And easier and more affordable way to improve sleep would be to simply refrain from using electronics like your phone, laptop or television close to bedtime. Instead, you could try using fewer stimulating activities that are free from blue light. So, reading a paperback book, meditating, listening to music or a podcast or do other things like that to unwind before bed.

Hmm. And what if your boss is emailing you late at night and you feel like you need to respond?

Good question. Feeling an urge to immediately respond to a work-related email. Describe something we call Tella pressure in the research, literature and research has found links between this idea of Tella pressure and the experience of pressure in your sleep. So, setting expectations about the use of technology outside of work and outside of work hours and preferred response times to things like emails is another way that supervisors and managers can help their employees get better sleep.

That’s a good point. And I’ve heard some leaders also share some guidance around what their expectations are and see more and more people as well using the Dilates method. So, they could be sending the email. But if they want to make sure somebody doesn’t jump on something right away, dilator, perhaps the next morning.

Yeah, that’s a great example.

So where should employees or employees go if they want to learn more about sleep?

There are a lot of options. Primary care physicians are a great resource for people who have concerns about their sleep. But for more general information, the National Sleep Foundation, an American Academy for Sleep Medicine, both have helpful articles about sleep on their websites, another resource that might be helpful for employers as a recent white paper on why poor employee sleep is bad for business. This was. Sponsored by the Society of Industrial Organizational Psychology, also known as SIOP, which is the field that I’m in and can be found on their website, that was super interesting. 

Thank you so much for coming on our podcast. Definitely a lot of important themes that too many people prioritize. I know, especially in these really challenging times that we’re in right now, a lot of people are starting to try to get more done, myself included. And sometimes that puts pressure against the quality of our sleep or as you said as well, the duration of our sleep. So really important topic. And I’ve seen in a lot of organizations where it becomes a subtle theme that starts emerging within the workforce and becomes really dangerous, just like people driving drunk or we’re coming to work drunk is you don’t necessarily have the ability to focus on the work that you have in front of you.

So, thank you so much for coming in to share some of these data points and try to share and popularize a lot more of that information for people, because I think too few organizations. But sleep on their corporate agenda, huh?

Yeah, I agree. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you for listening to The Safety Guru on C-Suite Radio. Leave a legacy to distinguish yourself from the pack, grow your success, capture the hearts and minds of your team’s Fuel your future. Come back in two weeks for the next episode. Or listen to our sister show with the Ops Guru Eric Michrowski.

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Rebecca Brossoit earned her M.S. in Industrial and Organizational (I/O) Psychology from Colorado State University (CSU) in 2017 and she is currently in the final stages of her PhD in I/O Psychology at CSU. Her research interests include employee sleep, health, and safety, nature exposure in relation to recovery from work stress, the work-family interface, and workplace interventions. Becca has published research related to the use of physiological measures in I/O and OB research, the interplay between work, nonwork, and sleep in a person’s life, the impact of poor sleep on construction workers’ safety, the role of fatigue for on-demand drivers (e.g., Uber drivers) in the gig economy, and the influence of schedule control on healthcare workers’ sleep and job attitudes. She is also involved in a sleep and work-family intervention study with service members and leaders in the National Guard.


COVID-19: Critical Safety Considerations for our Front Line Healthcare Workers with Dr. Stephanie Andel



Hot off the press! Dr. Stephanie Andel shares some recent research on safety for healthcare workers in the midst of the current COVID-19 pandemic. Some concerning insights that aren’t getting the needed attention. This timely episode provides some actionable insights to protect the wellbeing of our front line workers that are keeping all of us safe.

To learn more about Workplace Safety Considerations:


Real leaders leave a legacy. They capture the hearts and minds of their teams; their origin story puts the safety and well-being of their people first. Great companies ubiquitously have safe, yet productive operations. For those companies, safety is an investment, not a cost for the C-Suite. It’s a real topic of daily focus. This is The Safety Guru with your host Eric Michrowski, a globally recognized Ops and The Safety Guru public speaker and author. Are you ready to leave a safety legacy? Your legacy success story begins now.

Hi and welcome to The Safety Guru. I’m your host Eric Michrowski and very happy to have with me Stephanie Andel, who’s an assistant professor in Indianapolis with a significant background in safety, safety, culture and studied in industrial organizational psychology. So, Stephanie, welcome to the to the show and love to hear a little bit about some of the background, what got you into psychology. And some of the key here is that you’ve been focused on it from a research standpoint.

Sure. So, thank you so much for having me. Probably my degree is in industrial organizational psychology, as you said, which is an area of psychology that focuses upon human behavior in the workplace. So, within this large field of Io’s, psychology is a sort of specialty called Occupational Health Psychology, or OHIP, which focuses on understanding how work impacts health, well-being and, of course, the safety of employees. My research falls squarely within OHIP, so I generally study work stress, particularly in high risk helping professions such as nursing and emergency medical services, and understanding how work stress influences health and well-being of those folks.

So lately my work has really started to pivot to focus on the current pandemic course. Right. So, for instance, one of my current research studies considers the toll of the coronavirus pandemic on health and safety of nurses who are working on the front lines of the crisis.

That’s really interesting and very timely piece of research. Love to hear a little bit more about it and what got you interested in this topic, because it’s such an important theme in the in these times.

Sure. So, as you know, the virus is continuing to grow exponentially across the United States and the world. And more and more are really coming out in the popular press about the plight of health care workers who are on the front lines. So, we hear things like there’s a lack of personal protective equipment or PPE, inconsistent covid protocols and hospitals, health care providers, health care providers are living in an RV in their driveway and aligning themselves. Right.

So, they don’t have. Right. They’re worried that they’re going to infect their family. So, the list really goes on. Right. So, we’ve also seen some evidence of the physical and psychological toll that this is having on folks. There’s a number of safety issues. It’s also leading to psychological outcomes like post-traumatic stress symptoms and sometimes even instances of suicide in the front lines. The situation is really quite dire. So, we decided something clearly needs to be done to help these individuals, but the question is, where do we start?

So that got me and my collaborators are Marianna Arbon or Chanta Down. And when he said interested in hearing directly from the nurses on the front line. So, we wanted to understand what are their biggest challenges that they’re facing during these times and what is the impact that this crisis is having on both their psychological as well as physical health and safety?

This fascinating piece of work, I know I started being interested in this when I started seeing the crisis expand into Italy. And there were some really early reports of the impact and also physicians, nurses losing best friends and seeing them kind of exhausted day in and day out. So, tell me a little bit about how you got to doing this and what did the study look like?

Yeah, so we conducted a two-month long study of about one hundred and sixteen registered nurses. So, in order to be eligible for this study, we wanted to make sure we were really hearing from the nurses who are working on the front lines. So, they had to be working front lines in hospitals in the United States. And we recruited these participants through all different kinds of ways. For instance, we got in touch with many of them through Reddit and other social media websites, really trying to get those folks who were right on the front lines.

And we ended up getting participants from 32 states across our final sample in terms of the study design. Every other week for two months, our nurses received a survey in their email that asked that about a variety of workplace stressors they’d encountered that are related to the pandemic. So, we also asked them to describe the biggest challenges that they’ve dealt with or encountered during this time. And also, we had them just tell us what are their hospitals doing and we’re not doing to support that during this challenging time.

So, this this really started the survey launched in May and during this of the heart of the pandemic and data collection just wrapped up pretty recently. So, we’ve just scratched the surface in terms of data analysis. But our preliminary results are really interesting and we’ll continue to analyze that data over the next few weeks to gain even more insights.

So, so really interesting. What did you find out so far?

Yeah, so preliminary analysis really unveiled four key challenges or concerns that our nurses were consistently encountering at work during the crisis. These challenges are related to issues such as understaffing, insufficient communication, inadequate safety protocols, and, of course, as you might imagine, extensive emotional demands.

OK, so tell me a little bit more about these key challenges of the nurses have been facing this during this pandemic. And let’s start with the first one you mentioned the understaffing one.

Sure. As much as nurses were consistently reporting that their units were understaffed. So, in fact, over half of fifty nine percent of our nurses stated that their work unit needed more employees just to adequately fulfill their work tasks related to the pandemic. So, one thing that we were actually quite surprised about and we learned through the responses, is that many hospitals have had to cut hours of many nurses at the same time that the pandemic was growing. So, when we were conducting when we started this study, we just thought all nurses there had been so many nurses, there was so much work that everybody would be overburdened.

Right. It actually turned out that folks were overburdened and overworked, but it was just a few because the hospital had to cut the hours and many others largely because the freezing of elective surgeries influenced hospital finances. So, the hospitals don’t have the finances to pay everybody, even though there’s so much work related to the pandemic. So, this puts ICU nurses and other nurses who are working with the patients in very difficult positions. So, for instance, our ICU nurses reported that they frequently were assigned a patient to provide a ratio that’s much higher than normal.

So usually, it’s one provider to one patient or maybe two patients to a provider. So sure. So, thank you so much for having me. Probably my degree is in industrial organizational psychology, as you said, which is an area of psychology that focuses upon human behavior in the workplace. So, within this large field of Io’s, psychology is a sort of specialty called Occupational Health Psychology, or OHIP, which focuses on understanding how work impacts health, well-being and, of course, the safety of employees. My research falls squarely within OHIP, so I generally study work stress, particularly in high risk helping professions such as nursing and emergency medical services, and understanding how work stress influences health and well-being of those folks.
o one to one to two to one. But they were saying it might be three patients to every provider, maybe even more. And that’s likely to be getting worse as the pandemic continues to grow. Right. Because keep in mind, this was started in May and the pandemic is continuing to grow.

It’s continuing to and the ICU and a lot of states, ICU beds are at capacity, near capacity. So, I would assume this is getting even worse if they’re not increasing the staff.

Exactly, and of course, this has major implications not only for the health and well-being of patients, but also for the providers themselves.

Wow, OK, that’s a that’s something I had not heard of before, so it’s actually fascinating but incredibly disturbing in terms of the impact. I don’t know if your research looked outside. You talked to us about the states because I thought that in other places, they had put all hands-on deck to move people from elective to other areas. Do you know if that’s the case or obviously you’ve studied only the US side?

Yeah. So, we really focused on the US here. But I would suspect that given the other the way that health care systems are different. And of course, in other countries, I would imagine that they’d be able to maybe more easily put everybody on deck, all hands-on deck right away, probably easier. So very interesting. So, what was the second key concern that showed up in the survey responses?

Sure. The second key concern related to insufficient communication, self-esteem or concern arose in a couple of different ways. So first, the vast majority of nurses reported there was a lack of consistent and effective communication from upper management so that that is there was insufficient downward communication. So, for instance, many of our nurses said the hospital was constantly changing policies with short notice. One person, for instance, said they found out or one person also. Suddenly they found out from a newspaper rather than a hospital that another nurse contracted Colgan work.

Right. So, oh, my goodness. Not a lot of good communication from upper management. Second, nurses reported a lack of support for upward communication. That is when employees tried to speak up about their concerns or make suggestions for improvement. They felt that they were being consistently shut down or ignored by management. So, for instance, we had one participant who said they wrote a long evidence-based proposal to overhaul their unsafe covid ICU environment, and that was met with no response from their management.

Others said that when they tried to speak up, their supervisors basically told them that they had to have to deal with it. So given this lack of communication, it’s perhaps not surprising that the vast majority are actually two thirds of our nurses reported that they actually they weren’t confident in the way that their hospital was handling the pandemic. They also felt that these concerns were not being validated by upper management.

That’s scary because everything I’ve ever read, I mean, I’ve been in the safety space in a very long time, not specifically in the health care, but both upward and downward communication is such a critical component to the safety outcomes in any industry.

Absolutely. And more important now than ever. Are you?

No kidding. Especially if you’ve got everything else. You’ve got our understanding, all these issues happening at the same time. It’s even more critical. OK, really disturbing. Tell me a little bit more about some of the other key concerns that came up.

Sure. So, we had two others. So, the third concern that came up were reports of inadequate safety protocols to protect employees themselves. Right. So, most of our nurses were concerned about the availability of safety equipment and effective protocols. Interestingly, they were less concerned about the availability of resources that were patient focused, such as ventilators and ICU beds, which is good. However, there’s a caveat there. The study took place in May and June when the second national surgeon cases didn’t start up yet.

So, I just want to mention, however, at this time, employees were most concerned about the availability of resources to protect their own health. So, things like clear safety protocols for the employees themselves, covid tests for employees themselves and of course, the personal protective equipment or the PPE, which we’ve also heard a lot about in the news. So, in terms of inconsistent or inadequate safety protocols, one nurse, for instance, who happened to be taking she shared that she was taking fertility treatments, reported that her hospital system was still requiring that pregnant staff have to care for covid patients because it was incredibly stressful for her.

Another nurse reported that they were initially told they weren’t allowed to wear masks because of how it made the hospital look. So, of course, this varied across hospitals. There were some folks who felt their hospitals were very supportive, but I thought it was quite concerning reading some of these notes from participants saying that they didn’t feel that there was a lot of attention on their own safety and that they weren’t being prioritized, which is really scary. I mean, is the analogy that people often use around if you’re flying in the cabin, pressure depressurizes, put your own oxygen mask first.

You can’t take care of other patients if you’re not healthy yourself, which is really the so, so critical that nurses and doctors have the right level of PPE and know how to use it.

Absolutely. I think the key here is we need to make sure that we’re helping the helpers. That’s what I like to say.

I agree.

And. The final theme is the sense of emotional demands that these folks have been exposed to during this time. When we asked participants about the emotional experiences they’ve had at work, about three quarters or 72 percent reported that their work was often or always emotionally demanding during the crisis. And of course, I think it’s important to mention that these emotional demands really don’t just stop at work when they’re at the hospital. So, nurses reported that the impact of these demands are also spilling over to impact their family lives as well.

You know, they said things like their family members and children were constantly worrying that they would contract the virus.

I would imagine, you know, and they also they themselves were exhausted because they were worrying so much about their getting their family members sick. So, it’s really the emotional demands have a lot of impacts and a little bit like you talked about at the beginning, people living in RVs and so forth. There are cases where a nurse could be taking care of somebody who’s at risk patient normally right at home. Right. So, a parent or and having to live completely quarantined from the rest of the family.

So, it’s really alarming, especially when you think about the amount of sleep you need to have when you’ve got such an impact emotionally and physically in terms of work demands.


So, what are the implications of these covid related work stressors on nurses, their health and well-being and overall safety?

Sure. So, we found these work stresses are really associated with a wide array of negative outcomes. For instance, we found that they were linked to physical health outcomes such as reduced life quality care to mentioned psychological health outcomes such as post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms or PTSD symptoms, as well as what we call emotional exhaustion. Yep, safety outcomes such as near accidents, near misses and of course, covid related covid exposures and family outcomes. So, it’s even impacting marital satisfaction or family conflict.

So, the pressure that these folks are under is incredible. And the data shows that this is having a major impact, impact on really virtually every aspect of their lives right now.

And we don’t even know the long-term toll of this. Right, because we’re too soon into it. But the concern that I was reflecting is if there’s multiple waves, which is what most expect will happen, will you still want to do this next wave, the third wave, fourth wave, whatever the number of waves that come back to hit or do you eventually say can’t do this anymore? But then the other part is even new. Will it impact the recruitment of new nurses?

Will people want to become nurses? Will go to learn to become a nurse after hearing what has happened, which can have a long, long term consequences in terms of health care, access to health care. If nobody wants to do the work, that’s a challenge. Same as I know when this was certain to hit in Italy and the death toll among doctor was actually quite high initially from what I understand was, was how do you replace that expertise in the amount of time that may be needed for a following wave that comes around.

And so, given these key findings that you outlined, where do we go from here? What do you recommend that hospital leaders do to better support nurses during the current pandemic?

So that’s a great question. First of all, I want to mention that, you know, it’s absolutely imperative that hospitals provide their employees with the adequate people. And of course, it pains me to have to say that. But our most priority, right next, hospital leaders need to make sure that they support and really actively solicit employee feedback from employees on the front. Lines are going to be their best resources for learning what’s missing and what’s not working.

They’re also going to have informed ideas about how to improve current protocols in order to make sure that the workplace is more efficient, safer and less stressful. So, it’s also important to note that providing opportunities for employees to get that feedback can empower them and enhance unit morale as long as leadership actually responds and tries to take into account that feedback. Right. You don’t want to fall on deaf ears, right.

So those are important. I mean, we know that from the field of safety, the whole element of safety, participation, huge, huge people need to feel like there’s an unless they felt heard, something happens with it. I agree. So, I go on. Sorry. And third, I would recommend the hospital leaders. I’m sure they’re providing consistent and clear and regular updates to employees, not just when there’s major changes, but really schedule a consistent communication is key.

This, of course, ensures that everybody is on the same page so that. Processes run more smoothly and that everyone is kept as safe as possible, but also constant communication can help, at least to a degree, and reducing feelings of loneliness and isolation that these folks might be experiencing during this crisis. This is really a profoundly isolating time. So, anything that leaders can do to build a sense of community and connection is really more important now than ever out are, you know.

No kidding.

And the last thing I would recommend is, in addition to supporting employees, physical health through proper safety protocols and equipment availability is I would say it’s important that hospitals make concerted efforts to promote employee’s psychological health as well. So, they could do things like, well, research shows that psychological detachment, which is the ability to disconnect from work-Related thoughts once the workday is over. That’s important for reducing the negative impact of work stressors on psychological help so employers can promote detachment and a few different ways.

They could provide consistent regular work breaks. They could promote detachment after work by ensuring that employees are not contacted or preferably maybe not on call after the workday is over. And they also can promote psychological health in other ways. They could acknowledge employees hard work and efforts, and they could also try to limit the excessive emotional demands as much as possible. Of course, during this time, you’re never going to completely eliminate that. But if there’s any way for employees to go to work and share the burden, I think that is helpful to kind of protect every employee.

And so, one participant in our study actually mentioned that their unit allowed them to take a break from the covid unit and swap for a shift with a regular medical unit, which I really thought was a great way to kind of spread these most emotional demands. And it’s not pulling on one specific person, which I think is quite important.

I think it’s that’s brilliant because it really gives you a chance to recharge your batteries in some ways with something that’s less draining, I would assume.


Do you think the findings from this research will be helpful even after the pandemic subsides?

I really do. So, although we unveiled a number of key challenges that are top of mind for health care employees right now, these issues aren’t and are not necessarily new. Right. They’re just intensified right now due to the current pandemic. So therefore, while I would argue that all the recommendations, I gave are especially important to implement right now, it’s important to note that organizations are really always strived to incorporate these best practices, whether there’s a pandemic or not.

Ultimately, it’s my hope that this study will help to inform possible decision makers and even policymakers once the crisis is over to make the work environment safe, safer, healthier and better prepared in the years to come.

No doubt, because I think, like you said, the pandemic magnified the issues. But chances are some of the issues are in communication and so forth. Were there before. It just now becomes more acute. Exactly. So, besides health care, what other occupational groups or occupation groups do you think will be affected by this this pandemic?

Yeah, so quite honestly, it’s difficult for me to imagine occupational groups that would not be affected by the pandemic, but I think they’ll be affected in different ways. So, one group that comes to mind right now is teachers, given the pressure that’s on them, as many states are pushing to open schools back to in-person learning. Right. Right. So, I would imagine that these folks will unfortunately have your safety equipment, resources at their disposal in comparison to the health care professionals in our study.

So that, of course, has the potential to impact both their physical and psychological health. Additionally, those in the service industry who work with the public are also going to be dealing with a number of similar challenges as these pandemic rages on. But I also want to note, even folks who are not working directly with the public are going to continue experiencing numerous challenges as this crisis continues to unfold. So, for instance, many are working remotely with a lack of communication from employers.

Others are dealing with the stress of job insecurity. Others are trying to balance their work responsibilities with family responsibilities. Needless to say, these are really quite difficult times and therefore more important than ever that organizations will step up to support their employees physical and psychological health and safety.

Very, very well said, because I’ve seen this in the early days of the pandemic, a lot that worked for progressive employees that really enabled very quickly working as an example. Employees were, for the most part, incredibly grateful, and it showed very strong levels of active care for the organizations that did this really well. But as it goes on and on, the stress of trying to balance all the different things, like you said, family and so forth, it’s a lot for people to tackle.

So, I really thank you for coming on the show. But I think more importantly, thank you for doing this research, because this is this is raising like in terms of just the impact of it, I thought. Through a lot of the components that you brought, but not the depth and the breadth of issues, I don’t really think about the initial pieces in terms of long-term impact on a profession even. But I think you’ve brought some of a really, really interesting but also, I would say rather disturbing themes that are emerging as organizations are working through.

Obviously, some are doing this really well, but unfortunately, some probably haven’t been prepared, haven’t really been thinking about safety of the workforce in the same way in the health care space because they weren’t thinking the hazard was probably as dangerous as, say, in mining or in construction or in utilities.

Right, right. Yeah.

So, thank you very much for your work and for coming on the show.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for listening to The Safety Guru on C-Suite radio. Leave a legacy, distinguish yourself from the pack, grow your success, capture the hearts and minds of your team’s. Fuel your future. come back in two weeks for the next episode or listen to our sister show with the Ops guru Eric Michrowski.

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Stephanie Andel is an Assistant Professor of Psychology at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis. Dr. Andel received her PhD in Industrial and Organizational Psychology from the University of South Florida. Her research focuses on employee health and well-being, employee safety performance, and technology in the workplace. Her work has been published in various academic journals such as the Journal of Vocational Behavior, Work & Stress, and Computers in Human Behavior. Additionally, her work has been featured by a number of media outlets such as Business Insider, Fast Company, PBS News Hour, and the BBC. 

Contact Stephanie Andel: