Select Page

Prepare for the Unexpected: Leadership and Safety Lessons from an Offshore Explosion with Lee Ellis

Prepare for the Unexpected: Leadership and Safety Lessons from an Offshore Explosion with Lee Ellis

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE: 

ABOUT THE EPISODE

In this powerful episode of The Safety Guru, Lee Ellis from Proud2BSafe shares his firsthand experience of a catastrophic offshore explosion in 2020, involving a commercial fishing vessel off the UK coast, and the critical leadership and safety lessons that emerged from it. Through vivid storytelling, he takes us into the heart of the crisis, revealing what it truly means to prepare for the unexpected. Drawing from this life-altering event, Lee explores essential lessons in safety leadership under pressure, risk identification and mitigation, and the true value of recurring training—not just completing it but truly trusting it when it matters most. He highlights the importance of prioritizing mental health support, fostering a strong debrief culture, and providing ongoing support in the aftermath of trauma. Lee also emphasizes that exchanging experiences and knowledge across teams, along with adopting a growth mindset, is vital to strengthening safety culture and ensuring teams are truly prepared for unexpected situations. Tune in now to experience his powerful story and discover these impactful lessons, as he challenges us to move beyond routine safety practices and actively prepare for the unexpected.

READ THE EPISODE

Real leaders leave a legacy. They capture the hearts and minds of their teams. Their origin story puts the safety and well-being of their people first. Great companies ubiquitously have safe yet productive operations. For those companies, safety is an investment, not a cost. For the C suite, it’s a real topic of daily focus. This is the Safety Guru with your host, Eric Michrowski, a globally recognized ops and safety guru, public speaker and author. Are you ready to leave a safety legacy? Your legacy success story begins now.

Hi and welcome to the Safety Guru. Today I’m very excited to have with me Lee Ellis. He’s an offshore maritime professional who’s going to share with us today a pretty exceptional story about an incident at sea and some of the learnings from it. Lee, welcome to the show. Excited to have you with me.

Thank you very much, Eric.

So, Lee, why don’t you start out with your story and what happened in, in that, that day in 2020?

Yeah. So, I was working on a service operations vessel on off of the east coast of the Uk supporting wind farm operations. We were doing service and maintenance and on this particular day, there’s nothing significantly different about it. It was quite a bright, sunny December day. It was quite pleasant. But we were involved as a, as a craft with the, an incident involved a fishing vessel by the name of Gal wadi Moore, which has had a catastrophic underwater explosion. So, it started as a regular day for our wind farm. The SOV was called the Sag Nord. So, we had part Norwegian crew, part Dutch crew, part Danish crew. Sorry. And then UK resident technicians and a nice mix of general different nationalities now on board, all working together. So, yeah, on this day, just gone past 11:00am, cool, bright sunny morning, as I said, December 15th and there was a very loud bang. I was in my office on the operations, in the operations management office on board the vessel.

Yep.

And yes, the air fell silent for a few seconds after this bang and then all of a sudden there was quite a lot of commotion in the changing room which was located right next door. A lot of the crew members were rushing into the, the rescue equipment locker. And then my desk phone started to ring. It was the vessel captain, and he was calling to let me know that they just received a mayday call from the fishing boat and it was located approximately three, three miles away from, from us from our current location at that point in time to the north of our position. So just a little bit out of the wind farm and that the SOV itself was going to deploy its fast rescue boat and its fast transfer vessel, which are Two small rib type craft with three, three crew on each, driver, navigator and an assistant person, rescue person, if you will. And they were going to go to the location to assist where possible with this news. I called all the, for all the work within the wind farm to be stopped immediately. And so, we did have a couple of teams out on locations already.

At that point they had to play deployed on two different turb. So, I gave them a shout on the radio and also to the control room, put a full stop work order on the whole wind farm, everybody to just stop what they’re doing, go to their nearest safe place within the wind farm or within their wind turbines and just take a break and wait for further news. We also deployed, we had a, a small service vessel, transfer vessel with us as well. Kind of moderate size, twin catamaran hull. She could carry up to 12 people. And I deployed her out to go sit with two teams between their turbines so they can provide support facilities if they want to go back on board, use the toilet facilities, stuff like that, or fresh water supply. They were there available for them.

Sure.

Until we knew, you know, if we needed any additional resource, we knew where to find them. But for the meantime, they’re in a safe place. So, once they must have in the safe areas and received the messages back, we started to receive more information from the fast boats that were seen at the scene of the vessel, the fishing vessel, where the explosion had taken place. And they’re in the process at that point of rescuing all seven of the fishing boat crew. Some of these crew members were in very serious condition. So, to put it into context, the skipper, he was in, he received in the wheelhouse at the time, he actually had three broken vertebrae.

Wow.

Broken cracked sternum and orbital bone and significant knee injuries. The first deckhand let’s find him. He, he was a fractured skull, fractured pelvis, arm, ribs and toes and a ruptured bladder.

Wow.

The second deckhand had a broken leg, damaged knees, damaged knees and elbow and a punctured lung. The third deck had the deck hand. My apologies. He had significant eye injuries, plate to cranium fracture. So, it’s skull fracture and loss of sight in one eye. The fourth deckhand, he had minor injuries to his shoulder, ankles, knees, neck and back where he’d been thrown around in the blast. The fifth deckhand just had minor cuts and bruises. He was the guy who was on deck of the vessel, fishing vessel at the time. He kind of got thrown in the air and landed back on his feet and then fell over. So, he had Minor injuries. And then there was the night watchman who was in below decks. He was being the night watchman. He was asleep in his bunk, and he got thrown clear of his bunk. So, he was in the prone position in the upper bunk. He had a broken leg, broken hip and a broken shoulder where he was thrown out of his bunk completely. So fairly substantial significant injuries there. And yeah, so it was quite a quite difficult time for dealing with those casualties as they were coming back to the vessel.

So, everyone who wasn’t directly involved in the running of the critical vessel operations, we assembled them out on the back of the rear deck where the fast boats are recovered back to the, the main service operations vessel. And we made it into a; the deck area became a triage basically for the administration of first aid and pain relief. So, on board the vessel as well as having the, the basic first aid training that we all have to do to go offshore, we also had a vessel medic. We had an independent medic on board as well for being in farm paramedic grade medic with us who had been doing additional training on days when we weren’t able to work. He would give us an additional first aid training lessons and progressed our first aid level skills up to an advanced level.

Sure.

To the point where we could administer a pain relief in the form of a drug called Pentorex, which is an oral, oral pain relief. It’s like a little cylinder capsule. You pop the capsule and you take it like an inhaler. But it’s quite a strong, potent pain relief which we would been trained to use. So, he was out there as well. So he was, he was organizing the triage. Basically, we set up accidental emergency on the back of an offshore vessel. So it was, it was quite an interesting, interesting morning at that point. So, as well as controlling things in the wind farm, I was also hands on with the. Administering first aid to both the fishing boat skipper and the second deckhand. I, I did the bandaging of the skipper’s legs. So, I actually saw his, his bone, his shin bones.

Wow.

Where he had been thrown in the wheelhouse. His shins and his knees had taken out the counter console of the wheelhouse itself, and it basically skinned his shins on both legs. So try to patch him back up as best we could just so that he was able to transit back to shore at that point. Right. The other guys had the other, more, more serious casualties out on deck on, on stretchers and spine boards and we’re administering additional pain relief to them as well. Obviously, the Paramedic and the, the ship second officer were far more highly trained. They could administer more different pain reliefs that they had available to them. So, they were going through those and putting IV drips and stuff in as well. So yeah, it was quite a significant time.

And do we know what happened that caused that explosion?

Yes, we do. So, there was after the event a few, a few months later, well, the vessel was towed back to shore and assessed. She didn’t sink. Surprisingly she did take on water, but she didn’t sink. There was significant, the significant damage throughout the vessel. The, the hole was rippled as well. The bulkheads had moved; the engine mountains had moved by six inches. It actually shifted the whole engine inside the vessel off of its engine mountains in, in the, in the depths of the. The hull.

Wow.

But yeah, she was actually token back to hull in, in Yorkshire to a maritime yard there and assessed by the maritime agency. And it was determined that it was a Second World War bomb that had been caught crabbing. That. Yeah, yeah. But it’s not as crazy as you might think and I’ll get onto that bit in a minute. This is, yeah, she, she dragged up. They reckon It’s a 250-kilo bomb damage that they assessed it to be and then they did send down a, a dive robot a few, a few months later and they found fragments. There were also fragments in one of the pots, the crabbing pots that remained on the seabed where it parted the line and they found pieces of that. So, it was significant physical evidence to say exactly what it was. And they reckon it was a, say a 250 kilo German Second World War bomb. But yeah, so due to the unfortunate events of that day and being a completely random nature, but it’s still estimated, you say about the bomb, about a hundred thousand tons of unexploded bombs in and around the UK waters.

So, 100,000.

100,000 tons. Yeah.

That makes it risky to do anything that touches the.

Whoa. Yeah.

Deep water surface.

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, it’s, you know, it’s a, it’s a real big. 

It’s.

They, they still pull stuff up all the time. Occasionally the fishing boats will pull up an old sea mine or something like that and you hear of the lifeboat, or a naval vessel will go out, and minesweeper will go out and try and deal with it or they’ll locate it. Things get dragged up and then they get destroyed by the bomb disposal. Whether it be depends on where it sits as well on the shoreline. If it’s higher than the tide mark, then the army have to deal with it. If it’s lower than the tide mark, then the navy will drag it out to see him and make a big water splash. So. But yeah, there’s a lot of it out there still, especially around the east coast, obviously, because it was closest to mainland Europe. So, yeah, so there’s a lot of that out there.

Wow. So, in this example, how, how would you characterize leadership under pressure? Because you, you were in a routine day, or what appeared to be a routine day until about 11am and in, in a high-pressure environment, how do you prepare for this type of decision making? 

You have to rely on your training. And there’s no, there’s no specific training for that scenario, sure, no, and there probably never will, but you can always, you can always maybe surmise it may happen, but the risk factor is very minimal. But in the offshore renewables and in the offshore industry on a whole, it’s always about the training of what you, you prepare for the worst conditions is it particularly a high-risk environment. And so, there’s a lot of time, you know, it’s all about having good risk identification and mitigation factors. And it’s the same with a lot of land-based industries. You, you train to identify what is the potential risk to yourself, your team, your crew and also in the environment. And this, however, being at sea is purely complicated by that fact that you are isolated and well away from regular emergency services. You’ve got no fire, you’ve got no ambulance, you do have helicopters and we do have helicopter support from shore. The, the Coast Guard agency in the UK have interspersed helicopters around the UK coastline. But again, where you are in the North Sea, you could be an hour away from one of those.

We were, we were 45 minutes at the outset and that was a direct flight to us. And he was, he was hightailing as fast as he could in a large rescue helicopter and that was still 45 minutes away. So, you know, you are isolated, so you have to deal and you have to be prepared as best you can. Anybody who goes offshore has to be trained in the basics of emergency firefighting, first aid, management of control of certain situations as well. So, you do those as undertakings, but then you progress and you learn, you take as many more additional trainings as you can over periods of time. You, you basically, you increase and advance your portfolio, and you also add experiences into that. So, in this situation, although unprepared for it, having never faced an explosion before, it’s a case of, well, what Can I deal with and how can I deal with it? And it’s. So, it was a case of us. You’ve got to keep calm. It’s first, first and foremost in any situation, at any management level, you’ve got to keep calm and look at the facts and see what it is you’re actually dealing with.  

And what can you do to help and aid that situation or make things better or make improvements. You get the rescue parties moving as fast as you can. Which was dealt with in this situation by, by the vessel crew, by the captain on the bridge. He sent out his rescue teams on their fast boats. And from my side of things, for managing my personnel that I was directly responsible for, it was to make sure that the initial teams I had out, as I said before, they, I made sure they went to a safe place and they stopped work so they couldn’t come to any further harm of what they were doing. The turbine that they were working on was shut down. There was still power available. They still had, they had food and water, and they had a support vessel there for other needs that was necessary. You could ask why, why didn’t they just get on that support vessel and sit there all day? But actually, if it’s quite a bit, if there’s a little bit of lump or swell out there and you’re not that well-seasoned a maritime traveler, a wind turbine is actually a far more stable place to be than traveling around on a boat all day.

So, you know, some of the lads do have to deal with seasickness. They’re quite happy sitting on a big boat because that doesn’t move so much. But they don’t want to sit there all day, Bobb, if they don’t have to. So, they’d much rather be in a more comfortable situation on the turbine. So, so yes, there’s other things you have to deal with, but basically, it’s, it’s to keep a cool, calm and collective head about yourself and deal with each thing as you come across it.

So, so there’s an element of also being prepared for the unexpected. I think that that, that comes through from your story because I think in most trades, we tend to assume the best possible outcome. And as you said, there’s conditions. It’s a little bit like when you’re in the, when you’re in the air for pilot or if you’re at sea, you’ve got to be self-sufficient and find your way through whatever is happening in front of you because of that extended distance. I’ve been to many offshore wind onshore wind farms. But I can’t fathom to imagine the exponential difference in risk when you’re offshore and you’re dealing with the same wind farms.

Yeah. I mean between being on the actual wind turbine, the risk is exactly the same. That part it’s all, it’s all about the getting to and from. It’s, it’s about that element of working at sea and in, in high-risk environments like the offshore renewable industry, you have to build, you have to build your culture daily risk awareness and it’s all about the good safety culture. So, the development along with the training, you develop a good safety culture. It’s something that every company wind farm site strives to achieve and maintain, and it takes the involvement of all parties. So right from every new visitor that starts on site, they have to start with a thorough site induction as well as the site induction. You do a safety induction, you go through all the relevant toolboxes talk talks, incidents that have happened, recent historical facts with the safety related within the wind farm. Along with that initial induction. The team, if they’re going out, will have pre-sale briefings. So again, you’re looking at the reef risk factors again and the toolbox talk as well. You’ve got to have a toolbox talk every day before you do anything.

Regardless of what industry are onshore, offshore.

Yeah.

In America, maritime, aviation. All the same, everybody has a toolbox talk periodically as well to make that safety culture long standing and get the buy in of everybody you’re looking for. We do safety focused stand down days and stuff like that and team building days designed to make sure that everybody you know is, is both fully engaged and comfortable and confident in identifying the, and discussing and reporting on positive and negative safety issues and risk jobs used in this way that creates a very productive safety culture which should you know, part the way for everybody having a safe and productive but everybody coming home safely at the end of the day. And that’s the number one most important thing.

This episode of the Safety Guru podcast is brought to you by Propulo Consulting, the leading safety and safety culture advisory firm. Whether you are looking to assess your safety culture, develop strategies to level up your safety performance, introduce human performance capabilities, re-energize your BBS program, enhance supervisory safety capabilities, or introduce unique safety leadership training and talent solutions. Propulo has you covered. Visit us at propolo.com

and there’s also, I hear in your story a lot of elements of recurring recurrent training as well. Right. So, what you were talking about in terms of the medic it’s not okay I’m qualified with first aid, it’s how do I continue to upskill while we’ve got some downtime so that my skills are prepared for an unexpected event like what happened that day.

Yeah, absolutely. With, with any training it’s always about keeping it fresh as well and doing. You have, as I mentioned, the basic periodical trainings that everybody has to go offshore. They call them the GWOs, the global wind Industry Organization trainings which covers your fire awareness and those, all the basics, that’s fine, you repeat them every couple of years at a training college but in the meantime it’s expanding on those skills and making yourself a better training portfolio for yourself and making your skills sets fresh. And as you mentioned, the paramedic on board, he was an ex British army paramedic. Absolutely lovely guy. But he was, he was adamant that if we had days when we weren’t doing a lot because the weather was too bad, we were training with him. He, he didn’t, you know, you couldn’t go down to the games room and play computer games. No, no. Today we’ve got a training session and we would do two or three hours of advanced first aid to the point where he pushed it and to his credit, absolute credit and on this occasion he, he pushed us through to doing our advanced first aid certificates and we were under him to do advanced first aid which is, it’s maybe a two, one or two steps below UK paramedic level.

Certainly, it’s like an ambulance technician level where you’re able to do the splinting, a lot of the traction stuff, putting into baskets, putting, preparing for spine boarding. We also went to the level where we could give minimal pain relief in the form of the Penford, which is, it’s like an oral inhaled pain relief which is what we’re permitted to do. So. Yeah, so you know, you can never stop learning and the training is, is valid and significant but it’s, it’s very well and good doing it in the two-year cycle. But if, if you don’t keep up those periods of training more often and keep it fresh in your mind and things become stale and stagnant and you forget.  

So yeah, it also takes a mindset around training to maximize the value to, from a growth mindset to also say how do I get to the best version of myself from a safety standpoint because I can pay attention to training, soak it up or assume it will never happen to me.

Yes, definitely. And with these sort of things it’s Very easy to, to say, oh yeah, you do that when you speak to the new guys I mentioned before, you have to the new, a new visitor or a new technician comes to the site and you say well what advice would I give them? And my advice would be quiet, quiet, quite short and simple to them really. It’s never stop learning and sharing that knowledge. If you, if you’ve had experience with things, these industries from people, you go further through life. You meet different people who come from different walks of life. They’ve done different things. They may have ex-military backgrounds, they may have done, worked around the world. Me personally, I came to this industry from a brief spin stint in oil and gas. Before that I was working in factories. So, I’ve seen things and done things and been involved in general life. You know, people, people experience things in their lives different to everybody else. And the best thing you can do is share that experience. If you’ve seen something done better or you’ve experienced that some somewhere else, share it with a guy who hasn’t.

You know, you may have done a training course, but the knowledge more often comes from, from that experience. And so, it’s always best to try and learn from that as well. Whether that comes from, you know, an experienced colleague sharing a story on something or from something that you’ve actually witnessed yourself. You know, maybe you, you were first to witness a car accident or something like that. You’ve had to do first aid. I mean it’s, they’re not nice situations and you never really learn from a nice situation. That’s the unfortunate thing about life in general, you know, so, you know, but don’t ever be afraid to share that knowledge and, and that experience or ask for that knowledge and experience if you know, somebody’s got a little bit of a history in that. So, know what, how have you dealt with this situation? What have you seen before? What’s your backstory? You know, get to know your colleagues on a boat, it’s a lot easier because you sit around in the evening watching telly and chat, just chatting the day away. Some of the guys that we used to share the boat with, they were xref for, for a start.  

So, they’d been to some of them in both the Iraq campaigns and stuff like that. One guy was ex-army, he’d been in Bosnia, things like this, you know, significant military background and you can learn a lot from them. But some of it’s really scary but the experience is still valid. So yeah, it’s a shared knowledge that helps you build your experience. Not your personal experience, but it can help you with how you would deal with a situation.

And I think one thing that struck me when we first talked about your story is also the element of mental health, but also the debrief that occurred the day after. So rather than run back to work, when all was said and done and everybody was back on the sov, you didn’t jump right back into work. Tell me a little bit about how you handle mental health, but also the debrief that’s so important after an event like this.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the debrief started pretty much after the last helicopter had taken the last significant casualty off of the. Off the boat, and we were starting to return back to actually go and pick up ours. Our stranded team members who were back in the wind farm where we’d sailed away to do the helicopter operations. At that point, it was about an hour and a half sail back to the wind farm, and we kind of all just sat around in a bit. A little bit of a state of shock, if you will, just trying to process. Yeah, everybody’s trying to process. Nobody really said a lot. Everything was just trying to process personally, what on earth just happened. You know, there’s that big question mark you might go, did we do the right thing? Didn’t we do the right thing? Have we. Have we done what we best we could have? We could. We’ve done it better. And it’s like, okay, that’s fine. Everybody will ask those questions. And that. That is your own mental health to his tea. Sure. But what we did when we got everybody back on board, because we debriefed the guys when they came back on board as well.

And we got everybody up. We went to the anchor ground, and we got everybody up from the crew and everybody who was involved up on. In. In the bridge. It’s a large bridge area. There was about 50 of us in total, all stood up there in the end. And we had a general chat session, and it was led by the captain, and he was. He was talking about, you know, what happened, how. How we go about dealing with the situation. What do we think? Palm reflection? How do we think we were. Things went. And it was. It was kind of. It’s a bit of a strange one. So, the captain, when we all stood up there initially, we all gathered up there and the captain broke the silence and he gave a brief recount of the whole event, which he’d taken from his ship’s log directly. And then he personally praised every one of us for professionalism and the collaboration with the rescue effort, you know, with the guys who went out on fast boats. We helped them get the, the casualties off. Everybody mucked in with the helicopter, helicopter operations. And then we started to open up conversations and, and just talking about the things, how we were involved, what we did, where we were, what we were doing.

And just kind of a little bit of a breakdown analysis. Not too in depth but just kind of post incident. And then in the following days after that there were individual and group counseling sessions that were offered to everybody. We didn’t go back to work the following day. Certainly not. There was a couple of days actually we didn’t get back to work. It was just best just we were in a good position with the wind farm anyway. But that wouldn’t have mattered.

Sure.

You know, we didn’t have anything significantly broken. We were ahead of service, so it was like fine. But if that hadn’t been the case, that would have just waited. And management were really good about that. They turned around and said, you guys need to, you need to decompress, you need to take your time. We need to make sure everybody’s okay. And the mental health accent on that was really significant. And I was quite impressed with the, the company that managed that we work for on how they dealt with that. So much so that they had especially psychologists and counseling sessions. You could either do group ones; we all did group ones anyway to start with. And then they offered an extended that to individual sessions if you want to schedule them yourself, if you want to have a chat. We also, we were also having little breakout areas around the boat and just having little group chats and stuff and would go and have a coffee with one of our colleagues from the canteen or someone from the engine room. And because everybody ended up interspersed throughout the whole vessel during the incident. So, everybody was working with people they never really worked with on a day-to-day basis.

Some of the guys did have sleepless nights and it did affect them. Certainly, some of the younger lads, those who hadn’t had significant military backgrounds and things like that, maybe they weren’t. So, it’s, it’s a nasty phrase. But battle hardened, if you will, hadn’t had the experiences of traumatic experience so much so some of them were fresh out of college. So literally they’ve only ever seen was school.

Right.

So, you know, they’ve done an apprenticeship, become an engineer and thrown onto a wind turbine and that’s where they were, you know, and no face with this in their first year out from college. So yeah, absolutely. Yikes. And some of Those guys did need a little bit more support as well and that was given to them as well as best we could on the vessel. And again, with the onshore support and we actually made port on the third day. We went back and dropped a few guys off and made sure they got home. Some, some weren’t, some lived a few hundred miles away as well and they weren’t, they weren’t allowed to drive home. They were driven home and their vehicles were taken home for them. So that was quite a really nice supporting touch I thought. Or they were put onto trains, and their vehicles were arranged to be picked up or whatever means when it made necessary for them. But the ongoing from that was the long term on the mental support. It kept going. It wasn’t just when they went back to work.

Right.

That was at the end of did carry on. If you needed to talk to someone there would be a program put in place for you. And it was as you wanted it. It was a really good supporting feature of the company.

Yeah. Well Lee, tell me, thank you so much for sharing your story. I think there’s some really good learnings as well in terms of preparing for the unexpected in terms of professional orientation that happens in the, in that environment. But also, how you debrief and how all the practices to make sure that people return to work in good shape after a traumatic event like this. It’s a really, really good. Because it’s one thing to have a one-time intervention like you said, versus ongoing support recognizing that it’s a pretty traumatic event that happened.

Yeah, it certainly was. There is a, a bitter note to the end of that story unfortunately.

Okay.

So, when I presented my initial talk it was a two-day event for the company I now work for. And one of the participants in the audience, he was actually, he’s a vessel skipper, he’s a captain on one of the smaller vessels and he was actually that day he was the lifeboat skipper who came out and rescued some of the, the, the medium and minor injured personnel. The ones that weren’t helicoptered off.

Sure.

And that day I learned that even though with all our company orientated all our mental health support and everything, the captain of the fishing boat himself 18 months after the event succumbed to amount mental health insurance. So, he left behind a wife and two children. And it was because he has. Because they’re essentially, they work for themselves. So, they work for a very small, not big. The fishing industry is, is not huge, not big companies that they don’t have that kind of support or that, that and yeah, he unfortunately in the end, 18 months later, he didn’t make it.

And the others, the other six.

The others, the others certainly I’m aware that the ones with the significant life changing injuries, two of them never went back offshore again, but they are moving on with their lives. And the other three who didn’t have such significant injuries, I think they went back to fishing again. Sure.

So, thank you for sharing that. Unfortunately, that final note and it is true because there isn’t the support mechanism that exist in larger companies for industries like phishing that are highly decentralized small companies for the most part.

Yeah.

So, thank you. If somebody wants to get in touch with you, Lee, what’s the best way to do that?

Probably best to contact me through Proud to be Safe through P2Bs through the UK and they will. They will message through from this.

Excellent. Thank you so much for sharing your story.

Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you.

Thank you for listening to The Safety Guru on C-suite Radio. Leave a legacy. Distinguish yourself from the past. Grow your success. Capture the hearts and minds of your teams. Elevate your safety. Like every successful athlete, top leaders continuously invest in their safety leadership with an expert coach to boost safety performance. Begin your journey at execsafetycoach.com. Come back in two weeks for the next episode with your host, Eric Michrowski. This podcast is powered by Propulo Consulting.

ABOUT THE GUEST

Lee Ellis is a seasoned maritime professional and survivor of one of the UK’s most serious commercial fishing incidents in recent years. On 15 December 2020, while serving as duty operations coordinator, Lee was directly involved in the emergency response to a catastrophic underwater explosion aboard the crab potting vessel Galwad-Y-Mor, 25 miles off the Norfolk coast. The blast left the vessel severely damaged, injured multiple crew members, and triggered a complex rescue operation involving the RNLI, coastguard helicopters, and offshore support vessels.

In his powerful talk, Lee recounts the events of that day with raw honesty and vivid storytelling, using presentation visuals to help audiences understand not only the incident itself, but the split-second decisions and teamwork that followed. His session includes a 15-minute personal account that places listeners on the deck with the crew — feeling the impact, confusion, and courage required in the face of the unknown.

But Lee’s message goes far beyond the incident. He speaks to the value of training — not just attending it, but trusting it when it matters most — and the critical importance of mental health support in the aftermath of trauma. Most importantly, Lee challenges teams and individuals to think beyond routine safety: to go above and beyond in their preparation for the unexpected. Because when the unthinkable happens, it’s not just knowledge that counts — it’s mindset, readiness, and the ability to act without hesitation.

Lee’s delivery is calm, relatable, and deeply authentic — the kind of message that resonates particularly well with operational teams, offshore workers, young professionals, and anyone involved in high-risk environments. His session serves as a stark reminder of why safety training, preparedness, and emotional support aren’t just checkboxes — they’re lifelines.

For more information: https://www.p2bs.org/safety-speakers/

Explore more speakers from Proud2BSafe by clicking the image link below. They bring together a diverse network of motivational speakers with powerful lived experiences, supporting organizations on their broader safety journeys.

P2BS logo

RELATED EPISODE

STAY CONNECTED

The Safety Guru with Eric Michrowski

More Episodes: https://thesafetyculture.guru/

C-Suite Radio: https://c-suitenetwork.com/the-safety-guru/

Powered By Propulo Consulting: https://propulo.com/

Eric Michrowski: https://ericmichrowski.com

EXECUTIVE SAFETY COACHING

Like every successful athlete, top leaders continuously invest in their Safety Leadership with an expert coach to boost safety performance.

Safety Leadership coaching has been limited, expensive, and exclusive for too long.

As part of Propulo Consulting’s subscription-based executive membership, our coaching partnership is tailored for top business executives that are motivated to improve safety leadership and commitment.
Unlock your full potential with the only Executive Safety Coaching for Ops & HSE leaders available on the market.
Explore your journey with Executive Safety Coaching at https://www.execsafetycoach.com.
Executive Safety Coaching_Propulo

Year in Review: The 2025 Highlights on The Safety Guru with Eric Michrowski

Year in Review: The 2025 Highlights on The Safety Guru with Eric Michrowski

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE: 

ABOUT THE EPISODE

As we approach the end of another year, we’re celebrating the incredible journey we’ve shared, filled with powerful insights from inspiring global experts, transformative perspectives from thought leaders, and voices on a mission for change, all dedicated to making a difference. Take a moment to revisit these unforgettable stories and safety lessons with your host, Eric Michrowski, as he reflects on The Safety Guru’s most inspirational insights and top themes of 2025. From all of us at The Safety Guru, we wish you a bright and meaningful holiday season filled with happiness, hope, and safety. Thank you so much for listening, learning, and growing with us throughout the year! 

READ THE EPISODE

Real leaders leave a legacy. They capture the hearts and minds of their teams. Their origin story puts the safety and well-being of their people first. Great companies ubiquitously have safe, yet productive operations. For those companies, safety is an investment, not a cost for the C-suite. It’s a real topic of daily focus. This is The Safety Guru with your host, Eric Michrowski, a globally recognized ops and safety guru, public speaker and author. Are you ready to leave a safety legacy? Your legacy success story begins now.

Hello, and welcome to the Safety Guru’s Year-end special episode. I’m your host, Eric Michrowski. As we approach the end of another year, we understand that it has been a challenging time for many. There’s been so much happening around the world and in our busy lives that it can often feel like too much to process. Uncertainty continues to weigh on us all, especially on leaders who carry the responsibility of guiding their teams forward. Yet, within that uncertainty lies a chance to refocus, reconnect, and reignite purpose.

As the year 2025 comes to a close, we reflect on the importance of hope, purpose, and safety in lighting our way through times of change and uncertainty. Hope shines brightest when safety leads the way. This holiday season, we embrace the light of safety, a symbol of hope that inspires us to look ahead with purpose. It reminds us that safety fosters hope and connection, lighting the way towards a brighter and safer future for you, your teams, and those who matter most. As we wrap up another impactful year, we’re celebrating the incredible journey we’ve shared, filled with powerful insights from inspiring global experts, transformative perspectives from thought leaders, and voices on a mission for change, all dedicated to making a difference.

We’re generally grateful to have shared it with all of you. To our special guests, we extend our heartfelt appreciation. Your passion, expertise, and dedication to improving safety culture have enriched our show, and most importantly, made a profound impact on our listeners. And of course, we extend our deepest gratitude to you, our cherished listeners. Your support and feedback have been the driving force behind every episode. As we look ahead to our seventh season next year, we’re filled with appreciation for your continued engagement and excited about all the inspiring content and meaningful conversations we’ll bring your way. Join us as we revisit these powerful insights and unforgettable safety lessons and stories that will uplift, empower, and guide us toward positive change and lasting impact.

This year, we featured powerful insights and inspiring stories from around the world. We were also delighted to welcome many returning guests, not only those from previous seasons, but also some who join us this season to share their expertise on different topics. We’ve highlighted five impactful themes to make it easier for you, our listeners, to follow along and the topics that matter the most to you. Each theme offers valuable lessons you can bring back to your organization. So, if you miss any episode, I really encourage you to tune in.

I’d like to kick off our first theme by visiting some remarkable episodes featuring our returning guests, each bringing their unique expertise and insights to the conversation. We’re truly grateful to these guests for joining us again this season and for taking the time to share their latest insights, experiences, and perspectives. If you’re interested in hearing more from them, be sure to check out their earlier episodes as well, where they explored additional topics and share valuable insights.

Theo Venter and Ken Roberts kicked off the year with a powerful episode packed with insights and practical strategies to help you elevate your safety culture. This dynamic duo shared incredible perspectives to help strengthen your emotional connection to safety and implement strategies that truly stick. Both Theo and Ken join us in earlier seasons, sharing the valuable insights, experiences, and key lessons. If you haven’t listened to those episodes yet, I encourage you to check them out.

Dr Nicholas Mabbott, join us for two insightful episodes this season, exploring the science of sleep and fatigue and their critical impact on both road safety and workplace performance. His insights are grounded in solid research and enriched by years of experience. Dr. Nick also shared practical strategies and actionable tips to help reduce and manage fatigue on the road and in the workplace, offering lessons that are essential for improving safety and equally valuable in our everyday lives.

We delve into the critical topics of mental health for both leaders and employees, as well as into navigating workplace toxicity with Beverly Beuermann-King. Beverley shared valuable insights on what it truly means to lead with care, fostering a culture of both physical and psychological safety to create safer, healthier workplaces. In another episode, she addressed the essential importance of leaders prioritizing their own self-care. She also explored real-world examples of toxic workplaces, dynamics, and offered actionable strategies to help leaders recognize warning signs, communicate effectively, and address issues heads-on through meaningful, constructive conversations. Because ultimately, building a safer workplace requires balance, supporting the well-being of both employees and leaders alike.

We were honored to feature another episode this season with Dr. David Hoffmann about Psychological Distance to Improve Safety. In this episode, he explored how psychological distance, an often-overlooked barrier, can influence perceptions, increase risk, and lead to unsafe behaviors and decisions. Granted in his latest research and real-world organizational examples, Dr. Hoffmann shared what leaders can do to bridge that gap, bringing risks back into focus, and effectively reducing them to improve safety outcomes. He also shared profound insights in a previous episode, Leaders and their Decisions in Improving Safety Culture, where he discussed the multi-level aspects of safety culture and the daily micro-decision leaders make that ultimately shape safety performance. His insights are practical, evidence and offer meaningful guidance for leaders seeking to drive lasting improvement. 

An engaging episode with Brandon Williams explored the debrief culture, a powerful approach rooted in the debriefing methods and mindsets of elite fighter pilots designed to transform organizational performance and foster a culture of continuous improvement. Drawn in his experience as a former fighter pilot in high-stakes aviation environments, Brandon shared insights on how to build a structured debrief culture that can be applied across industries to drive accountability, clear communication, continuous learning, and sustainable growth. In a previous episode, Brandon discussed how to implement human factors leadership and peer accountability to reduce human errors and enhance safety performance. His episodes are truly not to be missed, and they go far beyond aviation safety and offer valuable lessons for all high hazard industries.

We Also, welcome back Dr. Archana Tedone for another impactful episode focused on the power of safety voice. She shared expert insights on what safety voice truly means and the pivotal role leaders play in fostering open, honest communication to create safer workplaces. Backed by her latest research, Dr. Tedone offered practical ways to build a culture where people feel confident speaking up, driving meaningful change, and improving safety outcomes. She previously joined us in our first season to share her insights on safety communication, helping organizations strengthen one of the most critical dimensions for improving outcomes. In that episode, she discussed how leaders can enhance their communication and collaborate more effectively.

Once again, we’d like to welcome back all our returning guests and thank them for taking the time to share their valuable insights with our listeners. Each episode they’ve brought us is filled with powerful insights and practical strategies to help you elevate your safety culture. If you miss any of them, be sure to tune in.

For our next theme, we take a deep dive into elevating safety culture, exploring the importance of making safety a deeply rooted value within organizations, and elevating both safety culture and safety performance to build safety workplaces.

We had a compelling episode featuring Becky Ray, who introduced her unique framework, the Five-Layer Culture Cake, a proven recipe for achieving tangible safety outcomes. She walked us through each piece of her framework, sharing bite-size strategies to build a high-performing culture and drive continuous improvement. It’s an episode full of rich and sweet insights that’s sure to I believe you inspired to take action.

In another compelling episode, Kelvin Genn shared his valuable insights on how leaders can bridge the gap between the boardroom and the frontline by fostering a culture of curiosity, unlocking the power of Inquiry to ask better questions and empower their teams. He discusses how leaders can connect, listen, and lead with curiosity to build stronger relationships and deeper engagement. This episode offers practical, actionable strategies to help leaders create stronger and safer workplaces.

We had a thought-provoking conversation with John Richardson, where he explored how post-incident insights can drive meaningful safety improvements. John shared key components of effective fact-finding discussions and emphasize the importance of fostering a learning culture built on openness and transparency to support stronger root cause analysis. You’ll discover strategies to prevent future incidents enhance your safety culture and promote a more proactive approach to workplace learning.

We also explored ground-breaking insights on fatigue risk management with Andrew Moore-Ede, who shared valuable takeaways on managing fatigue risk and offer practical strategies to create safer, healthier, and more productive workplaces. Andrew uncovered the root cause of fatigue, revealed objective tools to measure mitigated proactively, and explain how optimizing shift designs can enhance both safety and productivity. His insights are actionable and designed to help leaders protect their teams, reduce operational risk, and drive lasting performance improvement.

Dr. Nektarios Karanikas shared profound insight from his recently published research on redefining health risk and safety and explored how these three elements are deeply interconnected. He emphasizes the importance of leaders recognizing that safety is a duty technology, actively engaging with safety professionals, and genuinely listening to build a stronger culture of safety within organizations.

We welcome Trish Kerin for an enlightening conversation exploring the concept of Weak Signals. Trish introduced the platypus philosophy, a powerful and memorable metaphor that helps organizations identify and manage weak signals in the workplace. Shared a practical action plan built around creative acronyms and explain how we can train our brains to see beyond the obvious to create safer, more wear-work environments. Trish also emphasized the vital role of curiosity in both leaders and teams as a key to spotting weak signals early and taking proactive steps to reduce risk. Her insights remind us that recognizing and acting on these early indicators can lead to stronger safety outcomes and improved overall performance.

Next, we follow Alan Mallory‘s inspiring journey to Mount Everest, a story filled with powerful connections to workplace safety and leadership lessons gained with every step toward the summit. Draw on his record-setting ascent, Alan shares how to confront blind spots, overcome complacency, and navigate adversity to reach the world’s highest peak safely with his team. He emphasizes the importance of awareness, continuous learning, and strong team relationships. Lessons that remind us how we can all play a role in keeping ourselves and others safe.

We had a high energy and captivating conversation with Dan Comiskey, a former Canadian football league star turned safety leadership work. Dan shared powerful leadership lessons learned from under the stadium lights to inspire winning safety culture. He brought to life what it truly means to lead by example and to foster a culture grounded in accountability and care. Dan also shared how building mindful habits and empowering team members to take ownership can strengthen resilience and create a high-performing team. This episode is packed with game-changing takeaways to help you develop a champion mindset and put your game plan for safety into action.

We had a thought-provoking conversation with Dr Paul Salmon, Professor and seasoned expert in Applied Human Factors in System Science Research. Paul shared how interconnected systems and both direct and indirect decision-making impact safety outcomes and how every individual plays a role. He also explained the difference between old and new views of safety, using real-world examples to deepen our understanding of complex systems. Discover why systems thinking matters for safety and learn how to apply it across your organization with practical, actionable strategies.

Each episode in this theme offers powerful insights you won’t want to miss, along with actionable strategies to foster a strong safety culture, improve overall safety performance, and encourage continuous learning. If you haven’t had a chance to listen yet, I highly recommend diving into these episodes to learn, reflect, and bring ideas back to your organization.

Next, we take a deep dive into aviation safety, applying industry-leading safety practices and lessons learned from historical events. In this theme, we explore how one of the world’s highest safety standards can elevate safety excellence across all industries and revisit key learnings from historical aviation events to uncover powerful lessons that continue to shape safer practices today.

We welcome Captain Ian Hollingworth, who shared powerful insights on aviation learnings and human factors, offering valuable takeaways to help turn complex systems and challenges into simple, actionable solutions. Ian brought riveting real-world case studies to life and explored how key aviation principles can be applied across safety-critical industries. He also impacts three essential elements of human factors that are vital to improving both safety and performance. Whether you work in aviation or any other high-stakes environment, Ian’s insights provide practical guidance to enhance safety, decision-making, and problem solving.

Dave Sanderson, a survivor of US Airways Flight 1549, widely known as the Miracle on the Hudson. Dave took us behind the scenes of that extraordinary day in 2009 when the plane crashed, landed into the freezing Hudson River, and every passenger made it out alive. He shared life-saving safety lessons and emphasized the power of clear communication, leading with intention, and managing your mind under pressure. Dave explained why casual leads to casualty, highlighting how pattern recognition, quick decision making, situational awareness, and decisive actions can make all the difference with every second counts. Through his story, we learned powerful lessons from the Miracle in the Hudson, insight that extend far beyond the cabin of an aircraft and into how we approach safety in every aspect of life.

We were joined by Dr Andrew Hopkins, a renowned safety expert for a powerful discussion on the critical lessons learned from the Boeing 737 MAX. Draw from his latest book, Andrew took us through a detailed analysis of the aircraft’s trouble history, revealing how flawed systems, design, organizational blind spots and poor safety decisions led to devastating consequences. He shared important insights for boards and executives, emphasizing that safety isn’t just an operational concern, but a core leadership responsibility. Andrew also highlighted how understanding and managing risk at the highest levels is essential for sustainable business success. This episode is packed with valuable takeaways on strengthening safety governance, enhancing risk oversight, improving leadership accountability, sustainability, and building safer systems for the future.

Be sure to check out these episodes if you haven’t already. They’re packed with timeless lessons and real-world insights to strengthen safety across any industry.

Our fourth theme focuses on ergonomics for safer workplaces. We explore how ergonomic design and education can reduce injuries, enhance safety, and strengthen overall performance. This theme highlights practical strategies to create an environment where people can work smarter, safer, and healthier every day.

In a high energy and insightful episode with Robert Pater, we explored how blending martial arts principles with modern safety and ergonomics can help internalize both mental and physical safety practices and elevate your safety culture. Robert shared practical strategies to rethink ergonomics for safer workplaces, engage senior leaders in safety initiatives, make safety changes easier to adopt, and boost both compliance science and effectiveness. He also revealed how tapping into eureka moments can enhance learning retention and drive deeper lasting behavioral change. If you want to empower workers to take greater ownership of their safety, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

In another high energy episode, Michael Melnik shared how safety programs can be re-imagined to be more sustainable, engaging, and meaningful. Michael introduces the 10 energy sources and emphasizes the importance of creating safety programs that truly resonate with workers, engage teams at every level, and drive lasting success through leadership, commitment, and effective communication. This episode offers practical guidance on adopting an energized approach that creates real impact, putting safety in motion across your organization.

Both episodes in this theme share essential strategies for preventing injuries and creating safer workplaces, emphasizing a proactive approach that that puts worker safety first. If you haven’t had a chance to listen yet, be sure to tune in. These episodes are packed with practical insights you can apply to strengthen your safety culture.

Finally, our last theme, Voices for Change: Stories from Motivational Speakers on a Mission. We share powerful stories from inspiring individuals who turn personal experiences into missions for change. The mission, passion, purpose reminds us of the powerful difference individual dedication can make in shaping and strengthening a strong safety culture.

We began with a deeply moving episode with Jacqueline Quinlivan, who shared her story of unimaginable loss and the lasting ripple effects that followed. In 2018, Jackie’s husband, Lyndon, lost his life in a completely preventable workplace incident. Since that tragic day, Jackie has to inform her grief into a powerful mission, advocating for workplaces so that no one else has to endure the same devastating loss. In this heartfelt conversation, she recounts the heartbreak of that day and the profound impact it had on her family, her husband’s coworkers, and the broader community. Community. His story serves as a sobering and urgent reminder of what’s truly at stake when safety is compromised. Jacquelyn calls for a culture where safety is lived every day because everyone deserves to come home.

We also heard a deeply moving and powerful message from Patrizia Cassaniti, a mother who turned personal tragedy into a mission for change through her advocacy for a safer tomorrow. Patrizia shared her heartbreaking story of her son, Christopher, who lost his life in a preventable construction incident caused by complacency and poor safety decisions. Through her story, Patricia highlights the critical importance of putting safety first, fostering open communication, and building a culture where workers feel empowered to speak up, and where their concerns are generally heard and respected. With a passionate voice, she challenges the production pressure present in many workplaces and reminds us that every safety decision matters because everyone deserves to return home safely to their loved ones.  

Both of these powerful voices remind us that safety is personal. Their stories inspire us to reflect, take action, and renew our commitment to making sure everyone returns home safely to their loved ones at the end of each and every day.

And that’s a wrap for this season of the Safety Guru. As we head into the holiday season, we hope you carry these key lessons with you and share them to inspire positive change and make a lasting impact.

Thank you for joining us throughout the season. And a special thanks to our incredible guests for sharing their invaluable insights.

Please note, we’ll be taking a short break on December 25th and January 8th to enjoy the holidays and celebrate the new year. But we’ll be back with more exciting content in 2026. Until then, stay safe and healthy. From all of us at the Safety Guru, we wish you a bright and meaningful holiday season filled with light, hope, and safety. Thank you so much for listening!

Thank you for listening to The Safety Guru on C-suite Radio. Leave a legacy. Distinguish yourself from the past. Grow your success. Capture the hearts and minds of your teams. Elevate your safety. Like every successful athlete, top leaders continuously invest in their safety leadership with an expert coach to boost safety performance. Begin your journey at execsafetycoach.com. Come back in two weeks for the next episode with your host, Eric Michrowski. This podcast is powered by Propulo Consulting.

ABOUT THE GUEST

Eric Michrowski is a globally recognized thought leader and guru in Operations and Safety Culture Transformations. A highly sought-after Executive speaker on the global stage, he has led executive training programs, coached the C-Suite, and connected with thousands of Fortune 500 senior leaders. His approach is anchored in evidence-based research and practical applications in Human Performance, Process Excellence, and Organizational Change. He brings over 30-years hands-on experience in Operations Management, Culture & Business Transformations, and Safety having worked across a broad range of industries.
For more information: https://www.ericmichrowski.com/

RELATED EPISODE

STAY CONNECTED

The Safety Guru with Eric Michrowski

More Episodes: https://thesafetyculture.guru/

C-Suite Radio: https://c-suitenetwork.com/the-safety-guru/

Powered By Propulo Consulting: https://propulo.com/

Eric Michrowski: https://ericmichrowski.com

EXECUTIVE SAFETY COACHING

Like every successful athlete, top leaders continuously invest in their Safety Leadership with an expert coach to boost safety performance.

Safety Leadership coaching has been limited, expensive, and exclusive for too long.

As part of Propulo Consulting’s subscription-based executive membership, our coaching partnership is tailored for top business executives that are motivated to improve safety leadership and commitment.
Unlock your full potential with the only Executive Safety Coaching for Ops & HSE leaders available on the market.
Explore your journey with Executive Safety Coaching at https://www.execsafetycoach.com.
Executive Safety Coaching_Propulo

A Survivor’s Journey: Safety Lessons from the Miracle on the Hudson with Dave Sanderson

A Survivor's Journey: Safety Lessons from the Miracle on the Hudson

LISTEN TO THE EPISODE: 

ABOUT THE EPISODE

In this unforgettable episode of The Safety Guru, we’re joined by Dave Sanderson, a survivor of US Airways Flight 1549, widely known as The Miracle on the Hudson. Dave takes us behind the scenes of that extraordinary day in 2009, when the plane crash-landed into the freezing Hudson River and every passenger made it out alive. He shares what it truly means to step up under pressure and help others stay safe in urgent, high-stakes situations. Through his gripping firsthand account, Dave shares life-saving safety lessons and emphasizes the power of clear communication, leading with intention, and practical strategies for managing your mind under pressure. He explains why casual leads to casualty, emphasizing that pattern recognition, quick decision-making, situational awareness, and decisive action can make all the difference when every second counts. Tune in to gain powerful lessons learned from the Miracle on the Hudson and pivotal insights that extend far beyond the cabin of an aircraft.

READ THE EPISODE

Real leaders leave a legacy. They capture the hearts and minds of their teams. Their origin story puts the safety and well-being of their people first. Great companies ubiquitously have safe, yet productive operations. For those companies, safety is an investment, not a cost for the C-suite. It’s a real topic of daily focus. This is the Safety Guru with your host, Eric Michrowski, a globally recognized ops and safety guru, public speaker and author. Are you ready to leave a safety legacy? Your legacy success story begins now.

Hi, and welcome to the Safety Guru. Today, I’m very excited to have with me Dave Sanderson. He was a last passenger on the Miracle of the Hudson. He’s an author of four books and also a publisher of a magazine called Moments. Dave, welcome to the show. Very excited to have you with me.

Eric, thank you for having me today.

Let’s start with your background and how you got into the plane, essentially, the Miracle in the Hudson.

Well, thank you very much. Yes, for over 37 years, I was a sales producer for many different companies. You’re in sales and you travel a lot. That year, in 2009, 2008, I was with a company by the name of Oracle. I was in charge of what’s called consumer packaged goods in the Southeast. I was working with companies who made things, distributed things, and retail things. That the week happened during the Miracle on the Hudson, it was the end of a three-day business trip because we started in Florida early that week on Tuesday. That Wednesday, we worked in a manufacturing plant in Petersburg, Virginia. Then we went to New York City because the next day, we were working in Brooklyn at a distribution center. Now, I don’t know if anybody here has ever been or even worked inside of a distribution center, but they always open up very early because the trucks need to get going for their shipment. We were doing systems checks that day on the third day of that trip. We got in there early because we wanted to see how all this stuff was working. We started our day about five o’clock, so we got done about 10: 00.

I was excited because I gave me the opportunity to go home early because my traditional strategy because in business, you never know how things are going to shake out during the day, was always book the last flight out.

Being there many times.

Yeah. But now I get a chance to go home early. I called her Travel agent, worked with her, and she put me on US Airways flight 1549, the Miracle of the Hudson. I wasn’t supposed to be on that flight. That’s how I got on the plane that day. I gave up a first-class seat at five o’clock, received 15A on flight 1549 on January 15th.

Tell me a little bit about that experience. Obviously, it’s well known in terms of what happened on the Miracle of the Hudson, but maybe walk me through the early few minutes, and we’ll then get to some of the main the lessons that you took from it.

Sure. Thank you. I think a lot of people, not most of you know the public story of what happened. But there is a private story. There’s a back story, too. I always tell people the back story is usually more interesting than the real story. On my case, I was in C15A. When I heard the explosion, I never heard anything on a plane like that before. That woke me up because, Kaylee, I wasn’t paying attention. I tell people I was not paying attention. I didn’t know where those exits were, read the brochures, never pay attention to the flight. I didn’t because I knew everything.

You’ve done it many times.

Yeah, it flies a lot, no big deal. But then when I heard the explosion, I looked out the window because I was in a window seat. I saw fire coming out of the left wing. So, I knew something had happened. But when you fly a Swad, Eric and I were talking about, you used to travel a lot. Likewise, planes lose engines. There are always at least two engines on a plane.

Yeah, I’ve had multiple times single bird strike, not multiple times dual.

No big deal, right? Got another engine. We’re going to go back. I’m not getting home early, but at least we’re going back. That’s what made this one of the most amazing things is because that double bird strike took out both engines at the exact same second. I tell people one of the amazing things about that experience is we all heard this one explosion. Because I believe, it might be my belief, and other people might have different beliefs, we would have heard boom, boom. Then you’re over New York City, you may have a I have a different opinion on what’s going on. I think everybody is like, okay, we’re just going to go back to the airport. But as we started banking, I looked out the window and the skyline of Manhattan was right out my window. I had never seen that version of the skyline. I mean, I was right there. We were about to going down at the highest building. We were going right by. I’m like, wow, never seen this one before. Then I looked out the window a little bit, see where we’re going. All of a sudden, all I see was water and a bridge.

I’m like, never seen that one before. No. Those two things are starting to wake me up a little bit. I was like, okay, something’s going on that I wasn’t aware of. And then that’s when you hear the only words the captain said all day, this is your captain, Brace for Impact. And when you hear the word, Brace for Impact, you know something’s going on. That’s something you never heard on a plane, unless something’s going to happen pretty quickly. So that’s the one who really got my attention. I think everybody else’s attention, likewise.

And so, you went above and beyond that day because you were the last passenger, 15 A, is very close to the emergency exit over wing. Tell me a little bit about what happened because you did some pretty heroic things on that day.

Well, thank you. I think everybody really stepped up. I tell people, one of the things I grew up playing sports and athletics. When in sports, going into a game, we always had a game plan. We always had a game plan. My thought was, once I knew what was going on, once he said those words, If I survive this, which Dylan didn’t know whether we’re going to survive it or not, but if I do, I better have a game plan to get the heck out of here. My game plan was aisle up out. I’ve known with all my training; I was head of security for Tony Robbins for over 10 years. He was one of my mentors. I had proximity. I learned all these things. Now I’m putting him into practice. Because one of the things he teaches about, you say it enough in your head, writing grains in your body. I ended up saying, aisle up out, up, aisle up, aisle up, aisle up, in my head. So, if that moment came, I was ready to execute. So now we crash land. And the captain says he was roughly 120, 125 miles an hour when we hit.

That’s how hard it hit it was. So, it was a jarring hit. And I went back to my seat and up in my seat. And then I came up and I opened my eyes. I saw a light at the window, so I knew I had a shot. But now you’re the real problem start. Now you got water coming in this plane, and it’s rushing into this plane. Where I was, it was about knee deep already. As soon as I looked down, it was knee deep. But now you got to go. Then the picture most people remember, Eric, is the people standing on the wings. You always say, how did that happen so quick? Well, one of the greatest lessons out of this, and I think part of being in, we talk about safety, is if you’re working in safety, you have to get resourceful. You have to be resourceful. I think that was one of the greatest lessons that came out of this. Because what happened was when I saw people walking down in the seats to get out of the plane, that gave me a new metaphor, a new lesson. It’s like, when you think you only have one way to get something done, aisle.

That was the only aisle. That That’s the only thing I thought about was aisle, right? Ail up out, right? Right. All of a sudden, you see other people doing other things to get resourceful very quickly. When you get resourceful, other options and choices come into play. Sure. So, it lessens the risk. But now, it wasn’t my game plan. My game plan was aisle up out. I got to the aisle. Okay, now I’ve executed point one. I got to the aisle, now I’m going up and out. But when that happened, something changed that moment for me because when I hit the aisle, all of a sudden in the back of my head, I heard my mom start talking to me. My mom passed away in 1997, but there was something she would tell me when I was a kid. It just all of a sudden, I heard her tell me, it’s like, if you do the right thing, God will take care of you. The right thing for me was you take care of other people first. Sure. Because at that moment, I knew I was okay. I was alive, but is anybody in the back of the plane alive?

Instead of going up and out, I climbed over the seats to go towards the back of the plane. I got to the back of the plane. Things were moving pretty well. People were moving because water back there is about chest level deep.

Yeah, because it was slipping.

See, the angle you don’t see, right? You don’t see is the plane is actually like this. It’s not like this. It’s like this. The impact of the plane is underwater. I got behind the last person. And the impact, if you saw the plane impacted the Hudson River, it was a backside. It hit first, which took the brunt of the impact, which meant the bins had broken open, which means the luggage is floating in the water. You got to remember, look at the timing of this. This is approximately 3: 27 to 3: 30 in the afternoon on January 15th, when all this is breaking loose. Late afternoon, New York winters. It means it’s getting dark. So now you got darkness, water, loggie’s, a whole bunch of things. So, I got behind the last person, and I was just making my way out. And I looked at the right, I got to 10: 00 F. Like, Man, I am out of here. There’s light, there’s a door, I am out. And then I started to get out the door like everybody else, and I looked up, and there was no room on that wing for me.

And there was no room on the boat. So that’s why I was in the plane for seven minutes, way steep in 36-degree water. But people are already being rescued just a couple of minutes. That’s what part All part of the miracle. The first response was we’re there. But now you got to manage… There’s a lot of things you got to manage now. You got to manage your mind. You got to manage other people’s minds and states. Because what happened at that point, a couple of minutes later, I looked out the wing and something caught my eye. It was a lady, and she just wasn’t moving. She wasn’t moving. Now, all the training that I’ve had when I was in a security, primarily with Tony, is when you have somebody in that state of mind where they’re just shocked, they don’t know what to do, they don’t do anything, you got to do something to break them out of that shock because now you got to move quick. I mean, you got people stay on a wing, it’s 36 degrees water, it’s 11 degrees air temperature, and you’re not moving, and that means everybody behind you is not moving.

All I did was yell at her. I had to break her, so I started yelling at her. I got her attention. Somebody grabbed her arm and pulled her on the lifeboat. All of a sudden, you see people walking down a wing. When we talk about safety and risk and things like that. When you find somebody that state of mind, especially when you’re in a situation where you have to do something. I mean, in business, it happens all the time. I’ve been in a means where people just get stalled because they don’t know what to do. The way the world is moving right now, Eric, is so fast. You have to be able to make a decision and go. If you’re not doing that, you’d be able to help somebody be able to do that quickly because it could not only cost time and money, potentially somebody’s health. That’s what was going on the right side of the plane because another part of the equation that doesn’t get talked about, we talked about the back story. The flight attendant who was supposed to manage that door at 10F got injured. She had a piece of metal slicing her leg.

She went up at the first class exit on the left. The right side of the plane had to be managed by people like me who had zero training.

Sure.

I had no training on how to manage a board during a plane crash, which gives you another point of reference that you don’t have to know everything about something. But if you can lead people and you can influence people and you can give direction, and most importantly, give certainty in uncertain times. That’s when you become a leader, and that’s when you become a leader. That’s how you manage the risk of a situation, as you have somebody who can step up and give certainty to people in uncertain times. I think that’s what I was able to do. All I was able to give certainty because I had to manage a door, which I had no experience in doing that. I didn’t go to school for that, right. But it doesn’t matter. One of the lessons learned, Eric, is in a leadership, when you get in a situation, step up and lead. Just step up and lead. Give certainty to people because the person with the most certainty in uncertain times is the leader. It doesn’t have to be the CEO. It could be the janitor. If that janitor is giving you certainty to be able to do what you need to do, you’re going to look to that person.

Now, you’re the leader, and they’re looking for you to manage the risk of what’s going on.

Right. So, let’s capture some of those key lessons from the event. You just started by saying, Leader to step up. Tell me about some of the big takeaway lessons you took from this event.

This episode of the Safety Guru podcast is brought to you by Propulo Consulting, the leading safety and safety culture advisory firm. Whether you are looking to assess your safety culture, develop strategies to level up your safety performance, introduce human performance capabilities, re-energize your BBS program, enhance supervisory safety capabilities, or introduce unique safety leadership training and talent solutions, Propulo has you covered. Visit us at propulo.com.

Yeah, there’s so many lessons. I mean, there’s communication lessons that I talk about being able to communicate effectively. I’ll even use the example of the captain. All he said is, this is your captain, Brice for Impact. He didn’t go along with big, long soliloquy about, this is what’s going on, and there’s a river. He said exactly what he had to do in the most succinct way. As a leader, in stepping up, you have to be able to communicate effectively, succinctly to people. That’s one of the big lessons that came out of this. One of the big lessons that came out. It was later on. One of the opportunities when I get to speak around the world, I got invited to speak at NASA’s Safety Day at Kate Fina.

Now, to me, that was one of the biggest experiences of my life because I grew up in the ’60s, where space was everything, man. I mean, these guys are going to the moon. They shut down class to watch these space launches. I mean, it was amazing, right? Sure. Nasa asked me to be their keynote speaker on Safety Day. There’s a negotiation that goes on, and normally that negotiation is money. For me, it wasn’t money. I want to be an astronaut for a day. They gave me a little bit of money to basically cover my expenses. But the agreement was, after I get done speaking, Dave’s going to be an astronaut for the afternoon.

Sounds fun.

I did three talks for all the three shifts. I did all the three talks. Now it’s time for Dave to be an astronaut. The first stop we Eric, was in a room at Cape Canaveral. It’s a sacred room with the remains of the space shuttle Columbia. That’s the space shuttle that went down with the teacher, Mr. McAuliffe. There’s one person who basically owns that room. The first stop was to really understand, look at that situation, how does something like this happen? Well, we get there, and the gentleman who owns that room wanted to talk to me about my experience, and I wanted to talk to him about this experience. But he said something to me, which was obvious I’m eye-opening, and I tell this story every time I speak because it’s so powerful about safety. He looked at me and said, Listen, he said, If Apollo 1 doesn’t happen, we don’t go to the moon. Now, I don’t know if anybody here remembers Apollo 1. I’m old enough to remember it. It’s when the three astronauts burned up on Apollo 1 in testing. At first, I was like, I don’t understand. What do you mean?

He goes, Listen, you got to remember, in the ’60s, everybody loved us. We had more money we knew what to do with. We could do anything. We got casual. That casual is led to casualty. Instead, if this happens out in outer space, we don’t go to the moon. They stop it. We don’t go to the moon. When he said casuals leads to casualties, Eric, I’m like, this is brilliant. When it comes to managing risk and safety, this is it right here. You cannot be casual with anything because if you go back, I don’t know if anybody remembers Columbia, but it was all about the O-ring. The O-ring. They forgot to check on the O-ring, which caused the explosion, which caused everything else. It’s not casual again. In your business and in life, let’s think if you can’t get casual with your money because what happens? You go broke. You can get casual with the way your health is. You get overweight or even worse. If you get casual with your clients. What happens? They go someplace else. Part of safety and risk is You got to be able to not be casual with anything.

That was one of the greatest lessons. When you’re looking at the things you’re doing in your world, ask yourself, are you being casual? Is it I’m just going through the motions? Or is this, Do I have intention? Do I have an intention My attention is when you lower the risk and hopefully improve the safety. Another thing I learned, and it happened on the miracle on the Hudson, and it’s happened ever since, this process saved lives. What I mean by that is you better have a process, a game plan, everything. That day, the captain, the first officer, went through their checklist. Now, the first officer gets all the credit because he had to take that book of thousands of pages and get it down to, okay, what do we have to do? The must, right? Yeah. The must. The first officer, I give Jeff Skiles all the credit for that. The captain gets all the credit for getting it down. Skiles gets your credit for doing the process.

Sure.

And the flight crew had a process. Likewise, he all manned their doors except the one we were at because she got injured. We’re still in business in life. If you have a process how to manage your money, you have a process for your relationship with your wife or spouse. You better have a game plan. So, when I go into something, like I mentioned, I’m going to have to speak here three times in the next five days, I’ve got a game plan for every one of these. I’ve got a little book over here, and I still have a book where I write down my game plan. Because I understand process saves lives. Process saves lives. That’s absolutely the one. I’ll leave you with one of the last ones. I had the opportunity years ago to escort a guy by the name of General Norman Swartz off when I was in it. I don’t know if you’ve ever been around a four-star general. It’s very intimidating. I’m sure. This dude won a war in 69 days, man. The guy has actually done it, right? A lot of people talk the big game. He’s actually done the big game, right?

I have 40 minutes of transporting him, and I had an opportunity to… You don’t talk to a four-star gentleman, but I ask him a couple of questions. One of the questions he told me, it was the difference between being a manager and a leader. It was something I remember this day. This is going back to 2000 when this happened, right? For 2011, 2000. He said, Listen, remember this, 5 plus 15 is greater than 15 plus 5. I’m sitting there going, I don’t get it. He goes, Listen. He goes; he’s not talking military terms. I’m going to talk military terms. He said, as a general, I’ve got my colonels, right? The way I do my thing, if I’m a general or a leader, I’m going to give the mission to somebody and give them five. They can ask me anything they want, but then they’ve got to figure out how the game plan is. He says, But the difference between a general lieutenant, lieutenant will say, Give people. Here’s the mission. This is how I want it done. This is when it’s got to be done, where it’s got to be done. They’ll give people five minutes to ask them questions.

They’ll tell them how to do it because that’s the difference. If you’re a leader, you give If you give them the mission. They can always come to you, right? Right. But if you give them the mission, they are responsible and accountable to get it done, right? They’ll put it in their game on how it’s done, get it done. Where a manager or a lieutenant will tell you exactly everything how they want it done because it’s all about them.

Sure.

So, 5 plus 15 is greater than 15 plus 5. One of the greatest lessons I learned about you from General Normal Score golf that day. There’s a lot of lessons like this that I’ve learned. It helped me not only grow, but also, like I talk about a lot, you heard me say this, manage my risk. Right. Manage risk. And as a leader, I want to help people manage risk, right?

And so, I love your example, the casual leads to casualty. I remember when we first spoke, you also talked about high velocity decision making and some of the elements around pattern recognition. Tell me a little bit more because I thought those were also quite interesting.

Yeah. And that’s one of the things I talk about. Being able to make decisions quickly Because like we talked about, the world’s moving so quick right now. The competitive advantage we all have is speed is your competitive advantage. You got to be able to make a decision. See, most people can’t make a decision because they don’t want it. They’re afraid to make the wrong decision. Then if you see these leaders are out there now, these innovators, these entrepreneurs, I mean, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, they made decisions and just went with them. Because what they understand is this, and I truly believe this, you only got to be 80% of it right. And if you find out, you go out and drive something that doesn’t work, you try it again, you try it again. Where then you look at a company like a Boeing who’s very slow and pedantic because they don’t want to make a mistake, and they never get anything done. They never get anything done. So, remember, be able to make a decision. I think it was one of the greatest lessons my mom and dad taught me. When we were kids, I have not been as good as my kids as my mom and dad were with me.  

Because my mom and dad always made all their kids make a decision, and you had consequences. So, you learn how to make a decision and then bounce back. So, speed is your competitive advantage. And the next thing we talk about, we talk about is pattern recognition, because the skillset that leaders are looking for now, it was really two skillsets we’re looking for. Creativity, right? They want somebody who’s creative. Give me something different. Give me something unique. And as Tony told me, what he looks for in a leader is the ability to anticipate. See where this before it’s going. And that’s why he actually chose me as a head of security, because he saw me in action, how I can anticipate. How do you anticipate? There’s a lot of ways to learn how to anticipate. But the one thing, very easy one is doing it through modalities, visually, auditory, kinaesthetically. If you can understand how somebody communicates either visually, through auditory or through kinaesthetically, you can anticipate the next thing they’re going to actually do. I learned that trick because as you’re in security and you’re looking at people and watching patterns of people, and you can see if there are they listening or are they watching or are they really into themselves kinaesthetically, you can anticipate how they’re going to respond to things.

When I’m working with somebody, one of the first things I do is understand what modality you reside in so I can anticipate how I’m going to be able to communicate with you most effectively. The ability to anticipate, I think, is a key, and do that through pattern recognition.

Last but not least, you talked about how to manage risk. You also talk about when you speak to audiences, how you manage your mind. Tell me a little bit more on that.

Yeah, managing your mind, it all starts with that. That’s what happened that day on the Miracle in the Hudson. The people always say, were people screaming and losing? I’m like, No. The term I used that day with Katie Kedrick on CBS News was, it was controlled chaos, where things were happening really quick, but no one lost it. The way I learned, and I implemented that day, and I think the captain did the same thing, is through the managing one, three ways how you manage this, how you manage your mind. Through your physiology, how you conduct your body, through the words you say to yourself, and third, what you focus on. If you want to manage how to manage your mind, you do one or three of these things. The fastest way is way to move your body because that changes the way your whole body reacts. But when you’re on a plane going down a plane crash, you don’t get up and jump up and down and get your body going. So, I had to actually do it through the words I said to myself and the questions. I asked myself different questions to keep my mind.

Like I said, I’ll up out, I’ll up out. I had to ask myself to keep my mind in asking different things. Now, the captain, on the other hand, he said this publicly, so it’s public knowledge. He had to focus. I’ve heard him say this, and I even ask him this question once. It’s like, were you praying when you were going to the night? 140, 54 other people praying for me. He had to focus. All There’s three ways to manage your mind. Through your physiology, the words you say to yourself, your internal dialog, as they would say, and/or what you focus on. You can change your state of how you go about things immediately doing one of those three things. That’s what happened that day on the plane, and that’s how leaders do it. They immediately be able to go use whatever technique they’re going to use. You might see a batterer going up to the batterer plane. All they’re doing is using physiology to get themselves in the state they’re hit, right? Sure. Or in football, where they’re banging each other on the shoulder pads, right? So, everybody’s got a pattern, all right? You got a pattern.

Is your physiology? Is yours the way you talk to yourself, internal dialog, or is it how you focus. If you understand how, you can turn yourself on and put yourself in the right state, you go in that right state, you can accomplish anything. Because it comes down to one thing, Eric, and we’ll leave with this. If you have a strategy, you can do anything. See, what I try to do is help people understand strategies. That’s what I try to do through these things we talked about, pattern, regulation. If I can help somebody build a strategy, we can get your outcome. This is what I do. I coach people and I work with companies. All I need to know is what your outcome is, and I can show you how to get the strategy on how to do that because you’re not the first person to ever do it.

Right. Phenomenal story, great learnings and takeaways from the American Hudson, and also your Cape Canaveral story. I think very good, powerful lessons because I like your casual leads to casualty. I think that is very visible at NASA, but in many other organizations as well when you start getting too casual of things. You speak to a lot of different audiences. Tell me a little bit more about your speaking as well as how somebody could reach out to you.

Well, thank you. I have the opportunity. I’m very blessed to not only speak at many companies, but I speak at a lot of safety days, as you can talk about, I’ve done Exxon, BP Mobile, Novelis, PG&E out West Coast. And the reason why is because I can relate a situation where safety and risk management had to be maintained, but in a chaotic situation. So that’s something I do. I’m very honored this year, Eric. I’m actually producing my own event in Charlotte in November, where I’m really actually taking people to two days, teaching them all these things, going deep into this. Because what I talk about now is what I really focused on, because it happened the day after the miracle on the Hudson, is I figured the day after the miracle on the Hudson that I did not have freedom of time. My company owned my time. I didn’t have freedom of money. They were capping my money. I didn’t have freedom of mission because I was working for somebody else’s mission. Sure. And I didn’t have freedom of relationships because my boss asked me to go to Michigan now next week. He didn’t even care I went through a plane crash.

What? He didn’t care. So not that the company didn’t care, but he didn’t care. So, I knew I didn’t have those four freedoms. And I truly believe everyone who’s listening to this, and you and me, we all want those four things, freedom of time, money, relationships, and mission. So, this is what I do to help people. So, everything we’re talking about today, I’m very blessed to be able in November, November 13th and 14th, be able to… I’m reducing my first event to show people how to do this. Live in a person, and we’re actually going to do a fire walk, too. So, if you’re a little afraid to do this, we’re going to show you how to break through that fear by doing a fire walk. So that’s… You just go out to Dave Sanderson on LinkedIn, check it out. And we’d be honored for you to come with us in November because it’s going to be a heck of an event.

Excellent. So, Dave Sanderson on LinkedIn.

Thank you. Yeah, very easy.

Thank you so much for sharing your story. Thank you on that day for going above and beyond in terms of trying to make sure everybody got out safely on an event that started out as a normal day, as you said, and turned into something that had never been experienced before.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you for listening to The Safety Guru on C-suite Radio. Leave a legacy. Distinguish yourself from the past. Grow your success. Capture the hearts and minds of your teams. Elevate your safety. Like every successful athlete, top leaders continuously invest in their safety leadership with an expert coach to boost safety performance. Begin your journey at execsafetycoach.com. Come back in two weeks for the next episode with your host, Eric Michrowski. This podcast is powered by Propulo Consulting.

ABOUT THE GUEST

Dave Sanderson is a nationally recognized leadership speaker, accomplished author, and inspirational survivor of what is known as “The Miracle on the Hudson.” As the last passenger off US Airways Flight 1549, which had to ditch into the river, he took the lessons he learned from that profound experience in the frigid water and emerged from the wreckage with a mission to encourage others to do the right thing and share coping skills to address any adversity they may face.

Dave is now convinced that everyone has their own defining moment, whether it be personal or professional, but that most people don’t know how to take that first step to find opportunities out of their own uncertainty. He now travels the globe on a personal mission to share his life lessons, show the importance of not only setting goals but also achieving them, and share his passion for helping others who are longing for connection and community. So many people don’t have a mentor or their own “board of directors,” so Dave now works with people of all ages to help them decide what their personal “life” brand will look like going forward.

Named one of Inc.com’s Top 100 Leadership speakers, Dave travels the world to share his inspirational leadership lessons and has raised over $14.8M USD for the American Red Cross over the last ten years through his talks.

He lives in Charlotte, NC, with Terri, his wife of 37 years, and has four children who were very happy their father came home that day.

For more information: https://davesandersonspeaks.com/

Contact information: [email protected]

RELATED EPISODE

STAY CONNECTED

The Safety Guru with Eric Michrowski

More Episodes: https://thesafetyculture.guru/

C-Suite Radio: https://c-suitenetwork.com/the-safety-guru/

Powered By Propulo Consulting: https://propulo.com/

Eric Michrowski: https://ericmichrowski.com

EXECUTIVE SAFETY COACHING

Like every successful athlete, top leaders continuously invest in their Safety Leadership with an expert coach to boost safety performance.

Safety Leadership coaching has been limited, expensive, and exclusive for too long.

As part of Propulo Consulting’s subscription-based executive membership, our coaching partnership is tailored for top business executives that are motivated to improve safety leadership and commitment.
Unlock your full potential with the only Executive Safety Coaching for Ops & HSE leaders available on the market.
Explore your journey with Executive Safety Coaching at https://www.execsafetycoach.com.
Executive Safety Coaching_Propulo